WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.700 Welcome to these breakfast meetings for SMEs and startups. 00:00:08.700 --> 00:00:13.300 Great job on showing up so early and in such large numbers this morning. 00:00:13.300 --> 00:00:23.980 We are pleased to welcome you and to host these breakfasts, which are organized by the OCEI 00:00:23.980 --> 00:00:29.720 in partnership with the Geneva Chamber of Commerce, Industry, and Services. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:40.500 I’m fortunate enough to be the communications manager on Elsa FLORET’s team—she’s the Director of Communications, and she’s right over there. 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:53.240 We are truly delighted to be working with all these partners to organize these breakfast events for you, 00:00:53.320 --> 00:01:00.520 which are designed to raise your awareness of the challenges you may face as an entrepreneur. 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:08.200 We are delighted to welcome you to the CCIG, a private-law association, 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:10.480 In other words, we are independent of the government. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:16.760 And we are pleased to have more than 2,800 companies among our members, 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:22.400 which accounts for one-third of the labor market in the canton of Geneva. 00:01:23.320 --> 00:01:34.360 I think I'll let you speak, Florence. 00:01:34.360 --> 00:01:49.060 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and dear entrepreneurs. Welcome to these SME and startup breakfasts organized by the Cantonal Office of Economy and Innovation. 00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:53.700 First of all, I would like to thank the CCIG for hosting us at their offices. 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:58.480 Thanks to Florence MAGHE for the introduction and to Elsa FLORET, 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.400 who is the Director of Communications, 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.220 for their many years of collaboration on these breakfasts. 00:02:04.220 --> 00:02:09.080 More broadly, I would also like to thank all of our partners 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:14.360 who have been helping us organize these breakfasts for many years. 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:24.680 These include the CCIG, FER Geneva, Entreprise Romande, BDO, Deloitte, EY, KPMG, PwC, and Bilan magazine. 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:33.380 This morning, we’re going to talk about a topic that affects every business, regardless of size: online reputation. 00:02:33.380 --> 00:02:37.740 Your online image is often the first impression you make, 00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:42.920 before a client, partner, or investor even meets you. 00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:48.060 And that impression—it’s built, it’s protected, it’s guided. 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:55.940 In Switzerland, a reputation is built over time, but it can be ruined in just a few clicks. 00:02:55.940 --> 00:03:02.320 These days, even before meeting you, a potential client or partner has already looked you up online. 00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:05.020 And they're not the only ones. 00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:12.780 According to a study conducted by our French neighbors, 92% of consumers check online reviews before choosing a business. 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:16.960 Your online presence is your first impression. 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.800 And that's true for a small business with five employees just as much as it is for a large corporation. 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:26.680 This morning, we will hear three complementary perspectives, 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:32.560 how to align your digital communication with your business strategy, 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:37.880 from the legal framework to the essentials of monitoring your online reputation. 00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:43.360 This presentation will be followed by a discussion moderated by Lucie MONNAT, 00:03:43.600 --> 00:03:49.360 a journalist at Bilan magazine, who will address all your questions, 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:52.260 in particular through the Slido tool, which will be presented later. 00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:58.680 The Cantonal Office of Economy and Innovation is dedicated to supporting Geneva-based companies in meeting all their challenges, 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:02.960 whether it involves transition, economic development, or innovation. 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:10.180 These breakfast meetings are specifically designed to provide you with a network of experts and practical tools, 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.340 directly applicable to your day-to-day work as a business leader. 00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:19.500 Feel free to check out our calendar at innovation.ge.ch. 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:27.800 We also regularly offer training courses on starting a business, digital technology, and sustainability. 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:34.620 A big thank you to our partners today—EY, Deloitte, and PwC—for sharing their expertise, 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:39.720 as well as the CCIG and Bilan magazine, for their invaluable collaboration on this event. 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.920 I hope you enjoy a breakfast full of new discoveries and lively conversation. 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.600 Feel free to ask any questions you may have. 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.880 I will now give the floor to Lucie MONNAT. 00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:59.400 Well, hello everyone. 00:04:59.400 --> 00:05:03.880 I’m delighted to be moderating this discussion today. 00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:24.440 For today’s program, we have with us Poschia AGYEMAN, who will kick off the festivities; she is a Senior Cybersecurity Consultant at EY. 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:31.755 For several years, she has been advising international organizations on cybersecurity issues, particularly in the areas of risk 00:05:31.698 --> 00:05:35.043 management, governance, and identity and access management. 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:44.940 She holds a master’s degree in information systems management, and today she will be speaking to us about best practices in digital communication for risk prevention. 00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:51.940 Before that, let me explain how the questions work. 00:05:53.140 --> 00:05:59.180 Here's a QR code you can scan to ask your questions directly. 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:03.800 That way, we avoid interrupting the presentations. 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:09.640 And in any case, after the three presentations, we’ll have a discussion where we’ll be able to ask questions and talk things over together. 00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:13.360 So it records your questions, and then I'll hand it over. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:18.440 That's it. Thank you all, and good luck with your presentation. 00:06:23.140 --> 00:06:27.140 We're ruining the whole presentation. 00:06:27.140 --> 00:06:29.680 Great, thanks. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:33.020 Hello everyone, my name is Poschia AGYEMAN, as you may have heard, 00:06:33.020 --> 00:06:37.480 so Consultant, Senior Consultant at EY in Cybersecurity. 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:42.880 I am delighted to be here with you today to discuss digital communication, 00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:45.880 How to Align Your Strategy with Effective Communication 00:06:45.880 --> 00:06:50.800 to protect your online reputation and manage your risks. 00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:53.780 So, I'm going to go over the agenda, as usual. 00:06:53.780 --> 00:07:00.960 So, first of all, we’ll go over everything related to the risks associated with your reputation, 00:07:00.960 --> 00:07:05.220 whenever there is a lack of control, for example. 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:11.320 Secondly, we’ll really need to discuss all the strategies that need to be put in place 00:07:11.320 --> 00:07:17.840 in order to communicate effectively, and also to avoid any risks. 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.780 Third, we will explore the connection between disrepute 00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:25.600 and cybersecurity—which is why it's important to protect yourself 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.020 potential attacks, so we'll go into more detail on that point. 00:07:29.020 --> 00:07:33.100 And the final point will be how to respond to an incident 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:38.500 which will damage your reputation and, consequently, your company's image. 00:07:38.500 --> 00:07:43.820 So, as Lucie pointed out, I’m going to go through the entire presentation 00:07:43.820 --> 00:07:46.280 and you'll have the chance to ask your questions 00:07:46.280 --> 00:07:48.960 at the end, during the Q&A session. 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:53.100 Before we begin, I’d like to ask you two quick questions 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:55.820 and I’d like to ask you to raise your hand to answer that question. 00:07:55.820 --> 00:08:00.440 The first question would be: Who among you shares their work? 00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:01.720 on LinkedIn, for example. 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:06.920 That's a good portion. 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:13.320 And among you, who assesses the impact on your company's image? 00:08:13.320 --> 00:08:17.020 before posting anything on LinkedIn or other social media platforms. 00:08:17.020 --> 00:08:21.600 Okay, great. Thank you very much. 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.320 A few fewer hands raised, but that's okay. 00:08:24.320 --> 00:08:25.660 All right. 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:28.440 So, to begin with, to introduce the topic, 00:08:28.440 --> 00:08:30.800 I'm going to tell you about the Innovate Tech case. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.460 So Innovate Tech is a company that works in the tech industry 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:40.200 and has therefore signed a major contract with SwissBank. 00:08:41.040 --> 00:08:55.660 So it's a LinkedIn post—he's really proud of it, showing off his badge, with a few details about the project—but at first glance, it really is a pretty mundane post. 00:08:56.880 --> 00:09:08.152 But there are several risks involved. First and foremost, of course, is the risk to your reputation, because I imagine that in some cases, when you sign agreements 00:09:08.152 --> 00:09:17.568 with clients, you also sign non-disclosure agreements, and in those cases, sharing your client’s name directly impacts your reputation. 00:09:17.500 --> 00:09:27.800 There is also a lack of credibility; this means a lack of credibility and a lack of internal oversight when it comes to sharing this kind of information with the general public. 00:09:27.800 --> 00:09:34.300 And so, ultimately, this can also have a direct impact on issues such as breach of contract, for example. 00:09:34.300 --> 00:09:39.400 The second major risk we see here is, of course, the business risk. 00:09:39.400 --> 00:09:49.900 So you’re aware that your competitors regularly monitor your activities to find out who you’re working with and what kinds of projects you’re involved in. 00:09:49.900 --> 00:09:51.660 For them, that's a godsend. 00:09:51.660 --> 00:10:02.700 These are areas that are direct targets for them in terms of commercial attacks, but also for smear campaigns, for example. 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:06.740 And third, there is the risk of cybersecurity. 00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:09.340 This kind of information is a goldmine for us. 00:10:09.400 --> 00:10:12.840 so I went into a little more detail later on 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:16.480 but simply sharing your name badge 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.800 his first name, the place where he works 00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:23.460 and the type of client he works with 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:27.640 At first glance, this seems like trivial information 00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:30.680 but underneath it's a goldmine of information 00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:33.440 to launch any type of attack 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:52.700 And so, it’s clear that when it comes to implementation, all business and cybersecurity risks have a direct impact on the corporate image you wish to maintain. 00:10:56.060 --> 00:11:00.140 So, as I mentioned earlier, there are three major risks to consider. 00:11:00.140 --> 00:11:11.160 So now I’m going to talk to you in a bit more detail about other risks you’re likely to face once you start communicating online. 00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:14.900 And so, that’s where the risk and the conflict of interest come in. 00:11:14.900 --> 00:11:23.260 So, as the leader of your company, SME, or startup, you are seen as an ambassador. 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:37.197 Whenever you post on your own behalf, it has a direct impact on your company’s image, because the line between the two is very thin; therefore, whenever you 00:11:37.197 --> 00:11:49.480 communicate on your own behalf, it’s important to keep in mind that you’re not just speaking for yourself, but also on behalf of your company. 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:57.720 There is also the risk of negative buzz, which is often referred to as "bad buzz." 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:07.380 So behind that lies all the poorly worded statements, and then the viral crisis emerges fairly quickly, 00:12:07.380 --> 00:12:14.080 So if it's poorly worded, if it's really just a case of the information being miscommunicated. 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:23.140 So, it’s important to keep in mind that you really need to carry out the necessary checks beforehand to avoid this kind of risk. 00:12:23.140 --> 00:12:25.820 Then there's the data breach. 00:12:25.820 --> 00:12:29.100 So let's take the example I just mentioned, Innovate Tech. 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:39.800 Beyond that, there’s the issue of disclosing sensitive information, such as your client’s name, as well as any financial data, for example. 00:12:39.800 --> 00:12:46.560 This is information that you make public and that could subsequently be misused. 00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:48.580 So it's important to keep that in mind. 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:53.980 There’s also a point that’s often made: the internet never forgets. 00:12:53.980 --> 00:13:03.320 The internet never forgets—in the sense that if you post something today, the very next minute you might think, “Oh no, I made a mistake—I’m deleting this.” 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:06.860 Behind them, at least ten people took a screenshot, for example, 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:11.340 and so they can bring it up at any time in order to disparage it 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:15.020 and, as a result, damage your reputation. 00:13:15.020 --> 00:13:21.500 So it’s important to be careful about everything you post. 00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:24.240 That ties in with the points I mentioned earlier. 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:30.280 And, in fact, not end up with a rather lasting bad reputation, 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.960 because once that happens, it can be difficult to restore one's reputation. 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:39.100 There are also several identity-based passions. 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:43.240 Sharing too much personal information, 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:47.260 whether in a specific location or scattered throughout 00:13:47.260 --> 00:13:49.440 on various social media platforms, for example, 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:56.500 Otherwise, your identity could be misused. 00:13:57.400 --> 00:14:09.180 So be very careful about what you share regarding your workplace or any overly personal information about yourself, as it could be misused. 00:14:09.180 --> 00:14:15.420 And then there's the final point, which is legal risk—specifically, issues related to defamation and the right to one's own image. 00:14:15.420 --> 00:14:19.260 To that end, I’ll let Cecilia elaborate a bit more on this topic. 00:14:19.260 --> 00:14:25.720 I’m going to share today’s number with you. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.340 Some might say it's just a number. 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:30.660 I decided to say it was a number today. 00:14:30.660 --> 00:14:34.140 Today's figure is 74%. 00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:37.960 What does 74% represent? 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:43.160 This represents the number of violations involving human error. 00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:53.120 This is made possible by information shared in the public domain. 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:59.780 It is still a fairly significant percentage, which shows that beyond the human factor, 00:14:59.780 --> 00:15:07.680 employees, managers—if, behind the scenes, communication is poorly managed, 00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:16.320 It could have a vulnerability or a backdoor—in any case, one that’s fast enough to allow any kind of attack or other issues. 00:15:19.900 --> 00:15:27.980 So how can we protect ourselves from all these different risks that were listed earlier? 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:31.880 So there are a few points I’d like to highlight this morning. 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:36.840 So the first step is to define an alignment strategy. 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:38.960 So what does that mean? 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:43.560 This refers to clearly establishing one's position from the very beginning, 00:15:43.560 --> 00:15:46.980 We also need to decide what our target will be. 00:15:47.640 --> 00:15:53.440 So, do you want to communicate with your customers, your investors, or your employees? 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:58.880 But you have to be clear from the start so that you can focus your message. 00:15:58.880 --> 00:16:11.080 The third point regarding the alignment strategy is whether you can also align yourself with the company's values and culture. 00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:18.940 That’s also part of the strategy to ensure consistency in your communication. 00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:25.500 Another point to keep in mind is defining roles and responsibilities. 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.040 What does that mean? 00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:38.020 Not everyone in your company is able to communicate, speak publicly, or convey messages on behalf of the company. 00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:48.780 Therefore, it is important to designate from the outset who will be the spokesperson(s) responsible for communications. 00:16:48.780 --> 00:17:05.100 And so, you should also establish guidelines for your employees, as some of them may want to share information about their work or their achievements at your company. 00:17:05.100 --> 00:17:10.660 But we’ll also need to set some guidelines for how they communicate. 00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:17.840 And behind the scenes, it’s also important to set up all the systems for task allocation. 00:17:17.840 --> 00:17:19.280 What does that mean? 00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:30.020 We hear that it’s also a good idea to have someone—usually the leader—who has a clear vision of what needs to be communicated. 00:17:30.020 --> 00:17:34.620 Next comes the communications officer, i.e., the spokesperson or spokespersons. 00:17:34.620 --> 00:17:38.520 and behind them, the person who will be in charge of conducting the inspection 00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:42.260 and approve the post before it is published. 00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:47.540 These are also best practices to keep in mind. 00:17:47.540 --> 00:17:54.280 Beyond that, it is important to formalize everything through procedures and processes. 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:58.980 This refers to everything related to social media guidelines, for example, 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.020 online communication guidelines. 00:18:01.800 --> 00:18:07.460 So, write it well. 00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:14.220 Also, anything related to the validation process for your published content. 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:19.040 And also, everything related to incident management and reputation management. 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:23.780 Because, yes, you have to keep in mind that it can happen—it doesn't just happen to other people. 00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:29.600 So, it’s better to be prepared than to be caught off guard when it happens. 00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:38.420 And finally, when it comes to governance and strategy, it’s also important to incorporate all aspects of risk and security. 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:44.280 So, we’ve already touched on validation a bit, but also in terms of cybersecurity. 00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:48.040 So, implement all measures related to strong authentication. 00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:55.900 So, in addition to making sure your passwords are between 8 and 16 characters long and using a second form of authentication, 00:18:55.900 --> 00:18:58.760 for example, receiving a text message on your phones. 00:18:58.760 --> 00:19:01.360 These are best practices that should also be implemented. 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:11.420 Manage all access-related matters; not everyone can use or access your platforms that enable you to communicate online. 00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:13.480 So, it's important to handle this. 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:22.520 And in addition, organize awareness-raising sessions for your employees through e-learning, training sessions, and other methods. 00:19:22.520 --> 00:19:26.460 Those were the various points. 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:35.660 And so, as I mentioned in the introduction, the issue of reputational risk is a cybersecurity issue. 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:41.880 Why? Because in cybersecurity, what we do is use the kill chain. 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:55.500 So it's a seven-step methodology, starting with the recognition phase and moving through to the impact phase, 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.120 which is to achieve our ultimate goal. 00:19:58.120 --> 00:20:03.080 So, if we take the example of InnoVecTech 00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:09.960 by applying these seven steps to the example shared earlier, 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:16.760 So an attacker will go around on various networks, 00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:18.460 your company's various platforms. 00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:21.600 He's going to try to gather all the information 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:23.360 that you have shared publicly. 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:29.020 He might also go a step further by trying to bribe someone within the company. 00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:30.580 But that's a different matter. 00:20:30.580 --> 00:20:36.920 But first, the first step is to look at the public information you've shared. 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.460 You need to create a new one here. 00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:46.420 And so, he’ll try to come up with a scenario—a very plausible one— 00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:48.540 thereby creating a fake email. 00:20:48.540 --> 00:20:52.460 So he'll learn about the internal structure of your email. 00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:58.120 He'll also check to see if you've shared an organizational chart to try to identify his target, his victim, 00:20:58.120 --> 00:21:05.960 and thus ensure that the victim clicks on the fraudulent link that the scammer has carefully crafted beforehand. 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:16.220 As soon as the victim clicks on this fraudulent link, the attacker will gain direct access to and control over the system 00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:22.780 which will allow him to steal whatever sensitive data he wants, and publish it online, for example, 00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:30.940 in order to damage your image, which will ultimately have a direct impact on your online reputation. 00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:37.780 So there you have it—that was an example of something that happens all the time. 00:21:37.780 --> 00:21:41.420 These are known as phishing attacks. 00:21:41.420 --> 00:21:46.720 And so, that's really how it works. 00:21:49.300 --> 00:21:58.626 So, how should one respond when faced with this type of incident—specifically, when faced with this type of reputational crisis? How 00:21:58.626 --> 00:22:02.909 should one respond, and what are the best practices to follow? 00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:05.540 Behind the scenes, they're talking about risk management protocols. 00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:17.100 So, you’ll need to use monitoring tools to detect when a reputation-damaging incident has occurred—when someone has tried to harm your online reputation. 00:22:17.760 --> 00:22:24.100 Determine whether this is a real problem or simply a false alarm, a flash in the pan. 00:22:24.100 --> 00:22:29.640 It is also important to respond quickly and consistently. 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.100 So, a minimum of 2 to 4 hours is generally recommended. 00:22:34.100 --> 00:22:41.280 But you have to know how to communicate effectively—your message should be clear and reassuring, and definitely not aggressive. 00:22:41.280 --> 00:22:47.600 So, these are things that come highly recommended. 00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:56.840 And then, to address the problem in a practical way, with solutions and mitigating measures. 00:22:56.840 --> 00:23:07.880 And it’s also important to learn from all of this by holding internal meetings among yourselves to figure out what worked and what didn’t, 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:16.000 What areas need improvement? Is it a matter of improving procedures, or is it a matter of raising internal awareness? 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.120 Following all these steps will help prevent this from happening again. 00:23:21.120 --> 00:23:27.040 I'm almost at the end of my presentation. 00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:36.000 And before I go, I've put together a quick and simple list 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.520 to summarize all the information I have shared with you 00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:41.180 during this presentation. 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.800 So, here’s a quick checklist for you—something pretty straightforward. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.920 in terms of best practices for online communication 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.080 in order to reduce your risks—or at least keep them under control. 00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:57.480 So, to recap, we’ve talked about everything related to formalization, 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:01.860 so through social media guidelines, through documentation 00:24:01.860 --> 00:24:03.860 related to your risk management. 00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:09.920 It is also recommended to identify in advance 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:13.800 a cybersecurity provider in the event of a reputational incident. 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.140 to implement all aspects of strong authentication 00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:22.360 on your various key accounts, social media platforms, 00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:25.880 so we've already talked about this, 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.640 at the very least, include evaluations as well 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.960 on a regular basis regarding your online reputation, 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.660 conduct awareness-raising sessions for your team at least once a year 00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:42.200 and have a process in place for responding to negative reviews. 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.560 There is also another point, which is, 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.620 to regularly monitor our online reputation using appropriate tools. 00:24:50.620 --> 00:24:54.260 And as for that, I’ll let Nicolas elaborate on that point. 00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.800 Thanks to everyone, anyway. 00:24:55.800 --> 00:25:03.140 Thanks, Poschia, that was very interesting. 00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:10.060 We're going to switch over to the monitoring feed with Nicolas NEELS for a moment now, 00:25:10.060 --> 00:25:12.720 managing online reputation, 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.540 a brief introduction to our next guest. 00:25:16.540 --> 00:25:21.640 Nicolas NEELS, you are an Engagement Manager at Deloitte Switzerland. 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.400 You lead comprehensive marketing transformation initiatives 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.560 backed by data and artificial intelligence. 00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:32.040 You specialize in designing business models 00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:35.920 a scalable approach that links strategy and execution on an international scale. 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.040 You support executives in their work 00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:42.740 in improving performance and creating sustainable value. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.920 Nice presentation. 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:51.300 I think a lot has been said. 00:25:51.300 --> 00:25:53.920 But today, thank you for being here. 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.200 As Lucie mentioned, my name is Nicolas NEELS and I am the Engagement Manager. 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:02.420 Today, I’m going to talk to you about managing your online reputation. 00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:11.100 So, above all, here’s an important point on how you can turn your market intelligence and monitoring into a business advantage. 00:26:12.120 --> 00:26:18.160 Because today, your customers are the media, and it’s truly built in real time with them. 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:27.360 With every interaction—a notification, a message, a comment—it’s really a public signal, and that changes a lot of things. 00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:35.380 So today, reputational risk is no longer just a marketing issue; as we’ve just seen, it’s a cybersecurity issue, 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:40.260 but it is also a driver of growth, as we will see in this presentation. 00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:56.300 So in today's digital landscape, customers—as you know—are everywhere; they're on social media, search engines, online review sites, and so on. 00:26:56.300 --> 00:27:03.723 So I think that whereas in the past customers really followed a linear path and it was fairly easy to track them, today the experience is 00:27:03.670 --> 00:27:06.447 highly fragmented and influenced by various factors. 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:22.540 So today, if I ask you a quick question—just by raising your hand—how many of you check online reviews before buying a service, a product, or something else? 00:27:22.540 --> 00:27:37.640 I think this is fairly representative; you represent today's customers, since 97% of consumers read your reviews—the reviews you have online. 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:43.460 Another important point is that 94% have already avoided a business because of a negative review. 00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:46.500 I think that if I ask the same question, you’re pretty representative as well. 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:49.840 As for me, I get upset when I see negative reviews. 00:27:49.840 --> 00:27:54.720 So I'm not saying that's necessarily the reason I won't be hiring them. 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.240 Because it's important to analyze this, and we'll look at it after this. 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:02.660 Another point is that you’re twice as likely to be selected when the company responds consistently. 00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:06.200 So here’s the first thing to remember: respond to your reviews. 00:28:06.820 --> 00:28:09.200 And it's an investment, I know, but you'll see that it's important. 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:14.540 And we'll also look at how to respond to negative reviews and how to handle them. 00:28:14.540 --> 00:28:20.760 So, here are a few reasons why monitoring your reputation is important. 00:28:20.760 --> 00:28:27.300 First of all, as you said yourself, you’re going to check the reviews first, and so on. 00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:34.800 So, even before your customers have their first interaction with you, they’ve already done some research, etc. 00:28:35.060 --> 00:28:38.700 So it's very important, and it influences the purchasing decision. 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:44.660 Because by the time they landed on your page, they may have already decided whether or not to buy. 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:48.020 Another point: we talked about the negative buzz. 00:28:48.020 --> 00:28:55.740 I’ll also talk about this from a different angle and discuss how brands turn negative buzz into a driver of growth. 00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:59.760 That could be interesting too; it could be a useful tool, just like negative reviews. 00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:03.780 That's why we don't just sit back and accept negative reviews and bad buzz. 00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:07.380 It could be link schemes; this affects your SEO 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.940 and your visibility, and as I told you, that creates opportunities 00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:13.940 as we go along; I’ll go into a bit more detail later. 00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:19.620 And, of course, you can see how you stack up against the competition. 00:29:19.620 --> 00:29:26.440 I get asked this a lot, and I'm sure someone will ask me that next, 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:31.040 What tool should I use for market intelligence? 00:29:31.040 --> 00:29:37.561 The first important point, I think, is to consider the tool itself. As I often say—even to my clients—you can have a Ferrari, but if 00:29:37.561 --> 00:29:39.893 you don’t know how to drive it, it’s useless. 00:29:39.560 --> 00:29:44.200 So even if you have the best tools available, if you don't know how to use them, they won't do you any good. 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:52.580 So the first thing that’s very important is to structure your strategy around e-monitoring and online reputation. 00:29:53.280 --> 00:30:01.300 As you can see, there are many places where you can check out the reviews your customers leave about your business. 00:30:01.300 --> 00:30:04.540 And several steps to monitor. 00:30:04.540 --> 00:30:10.960 The first step is to define your goals—what you want to achieve in terms of your reputation. 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.900 And the keywords too—we'll look into those later to set up alerts and so on. 00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:18.680 The second one, which is also very important, I encourage you to do it, 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.400 Not right after that—you can take the weekend off 00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.220 maybe next week 00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:24.380 to audit your online presence 00:30:24.380 --> 00:30:27.300 It's very important to know—do you know today? 00:30:27.300 --> 00:30:28.420 Where do you stand? 00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:30.500 Where do your customers go? 00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:33.680 to look up information, to post reviews 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.460 etc., so I really encourage you to 00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:36.980 to do it because it will put your database 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:38.260 for your strategy 00:30:38.260 --> 00:30:41.520 and then we get to the point of choosing and configuring 00:30:41.520 --> 00:30:43.360 As for the tools, I'll bring them 00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:45.380 After that, as I said, we can do 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:47.540 you don't necessarily need 00:30:47.540 --> 00:30:49.300 a huge budget to do that, so we can go 00:30:49.300 --> 00:30:51.380 Actually, when it comes to my clients, I have clients 00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:53.380 international ones, so we have some big 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:55.520 factories for that purpose 00:30:55.520 --> 00:30:56.960 but I'll show you that later too 00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.440 using simple methods, how can we implement 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:01.500 with that in place, even at a basic level 00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:02.440 staff, etc. 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:05.020 Set alerts, 00:31:05.020 --> 00:31:07.060 I think everyone knows Google, 00:31:07.060 --> 00:31:09.120 so we can set up 00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:10.860 Google alerts and 00:31:10.860 --> 00:31:13.200 actually start monitoring with 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.880 of the dashboard 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.360 that will allow us to analyze them 00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:19.560 to measure and then to take 00:31:19.560 --> 00:31:22.080 measures to improve 00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:23.160 our online reputation 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:27.740 so we saw 00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:30.240 what's needed is—and this is important—the strategy 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.700 I think I move around a lot 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:35.680 So you saw 00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.880 the strategy 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.800 which is important to implement and within 00:31:39.800 --> 00:31:41.840 what really matters is 00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:43.760 to have the corresponding KPIs 00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.420 we're all going to think 00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:47.720 by volume, to see how many mentions there are 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.100 etc. But you see, there's a whole list 00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:52.200 key factors to consider 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.100 in particular, the sense of analysis 00:31:54.100 --> 00:31:56.120 if you don't know what it is 00:31:56.120 --> 00:31:57.920 You can see a little bit down below—that’s really knowing 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.060 What kind of feedback have you received from your customers? 00:32:00.060 --> 00:32:01.900 the percentage of positive reviews 00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:04.160 neutral and negative 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.220 We'll see later how we can do that, too 00:32:06.220 --> 00:32:08.080 without necessarily having to go out and get tools 00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:10.060 very expensive 00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:11.780 but other points such as 00:32:11.780 --> 00:32:14.020 As for the number of reviews, I think we've all done our part 00:32:14.020 --> 00:32:16.060 for example, when we go 00:32:16.060 --> 00:32:17.020 on Amazon, let's check it out 00:32:17.020 --> 00:32:19.920 the product with the one that has the most 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.640 Rated 4.5 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:23.180 5 stars 00:32:23.180 --> 00:32:25.740 but also a point that is very important 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:27.800 That's the response time because it works for you 00:32:27.800 --> 00:32:29.860 an image, if you wait 10 days 00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:31.860 to reply to a comment, the customer 00:32:31.860 --> 00:32:33.980 might think, "Okay, this company..." 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:36.080 isn't very responsive, so it doesn't work 00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:38.000 not the best image, so it's important 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.300 to implement this strategy 00:32:40.300 --> 00:32:42.040 on a regular basis, with monitoring 00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:43.480 be able to react fairly quickly 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.080 We look forward to hearing your thoughts and your responses 00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:48.120 your positive and negative feedback 00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:50.220 another point 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.020 I won't go into all the details, but I'm delighted 00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:54.220 to talk about it, the share of voice 00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:56.280 So, really, what is your visibility? 00:32:56.280 --> 00:32:58.380 online and the same goes for share of voice 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:00.320 on your own isn't 00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:01.520 definitely useful; for example, you can 00:33:01.520 --> 00:33:04.500 add it as a supplement 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:05.620 using sentiment analysis 00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:08.500 because share of voice really is your visibility 00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:09.560 the number of mentions you have 00:33:09.560 --> 00:33:10.960 So, for example, you could have 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.060 with a low share of voice 00:33:13.060 --> 00:33:15.660 but a sense of analysis 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:16.560 which is positive 00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:19.200 In that case, it really opens up opportunities for you 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.160 as a growth driver and to grow 00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.180 Conversely, if you have, for example, 00:33:23.180 --> 00:33:25.000 a fairly high share of voice 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.380 but negative feelings can lead to a crisis 00:33:27.380 --> 00:33:28.820 for your business 00:33:28.820 --> 00:33:34.500 I used an example 00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:37.840 from a company that is usually in the room 00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:39.100 so I won't mention her 00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:44.860 And at that point, I had a bit of fun trying to get some negative feedback 00:33:44.860 --> 00:33:49.600 that I found online to analyze it and also to show you 00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:53.440 what's good, the good things, what could be improved 00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:57.220 and how, in fact, as I told you, this creates leverage. 00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:03.560 So, to give some context, this person hired a chauffeur service 00:34:03.560 --> 00:34:05.760 and she complained because at the last minute, 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:11.620 She was unpleasantly surprised to find she had to pay an extra 350 euros, which she hadn't expected. 00:34:11.620 --> 00:34:17.200 So, as we can see, this comment does indeed have an impact on the company's reliability, 00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:23.220 since the person is showing that side of themselves, where they have unexpected expenses in that area. 00:34:23.220 --> 00:34:30.420 That is the first point that highlights the negative impact on the company. 00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:32.940 But another factor that also plays a role is the response. 00:34:33.340 --> 00:34:37.520 Once you know you've replied, that's it—it's done—you can move on to something else. 00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:44.800 Here, I'm going to show you that this approach isn't exactly the best one for this kind of situation. 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:48.700 So here, I’m going to start over with what worked. 00:34:48.700 --> 00:34:51.180 There are still some positive aspects to this response. 00:34:51.180 --> 00:34:54.220 First of all, the company responded. 00:34:54.220 --> 00:34:59.580 So, as I told you, respond to the reviews you see online. 00:35:00.380 --> 00:35:04.400 The second thing is to say thank you, because the person took the time to give feedback. 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:08.460 You might say that people are more likely to speak up when they have something negative to say, 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:11.600 but she still took the time to share her experience. 00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:14.820 And the third is that she tried to explain. 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:19.180 Where can we improve? 00:35:19.180 --> 00:35:22.120 What we see here is that the tone is quite defensive. 00:35:22.120 --> 00:35:24.360 If you're reading this message, I'll let you read it; I'm not going to read it, 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.860 but the thing is, it's pretty defensive and very corporate, 00:35:26.860 --> 00:35:29.300 and there isn't much empathy in this message. 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:31.700 That's a really clear explanation. 00:35:31.700 --> 00:35:35.700 And another very important point is that there is no resolution. 00:35:35.700 --> 00:35:43.440 When you read the last sentence, you think, "The debate is over." After that sentence, you think, "It's over; let's move on." 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:50.860 So it's clear that the brand name here is just a label—it doesn't really reassure the customer. 00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:55.540 So, naturally, you’ll check out this company, you’ll read its reviews, you know. 00:35:55.540 --> 00:35:58.420 The first thing is, of course, to review the complaint. 00:35:58.780 --> 00:36:03.160 But as I told you, there are sometimes complaints that don't necessarily need to be taken into account, 00:36:03.160 --> 00:36:06.080 because we also have haters and people who want to harm the brand. 00:36:06.080 --> 00:36:10.940 But what's also important here is to see how the company responded to change its image. 00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:17.440 What could be done differently in the response that might be interesting? 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.660 The first step is, in fact, to acknowledge that frustration. 00:36:20.660 --> 00:36:22.260 I might be in the way while you're taking pictures. 00:36:23.380 --> 00:36:33.080 To acknowledge the frustration, to say we're sorry—we fully understand that this incident caused a bad experience for this customer who was leaving on vacation. 00:36:33.080 --> 00:36:35.020 So show some empathy in this regard. 00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:38.840 To offer a simple and sincere apology. 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:45.420 You don't need to write a 15-line apology essay just to offer the most insincere apology. 00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:47.520 And explain briefly. 00:36:47.520 --> 00:36:50.640 Here, too, there were explanations, without over-justifying. 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:59.771 I also notice this a lot—for example, in my line of work, I do quite a bit of contracting—and when I see contractors with negative reviews who then 00:36:59.771 --> 00:37:05.152 post a 50-line explanation, it doesn’t exactly paint a good picture in that regard either. 00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:11.300 Because we tell ourselves that this person will be right about everything, and that’s going to make the relationship complicated. 00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:19.941 And one last important point is to offer a solution—in other words, to realize that we can’t stop here; we need to make a proposal, or 00:37:19.941 --> 00:37:22.766 contact the person involved and suggest it to them, 00:37:22.600 --> 00:37:33.920 After that, it’s up to you to decide, because I don’t want to put you out of business over this—either a refund or a gift card, depending on what you can offer, 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:41.680 but we need to show that there’s still follow-up involved and that we’re not just leaving things as they are, or that guests should contact customer service, etc. 00:37:42.240 --> 00:37:49.440 So that's the case of someone at the company. 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:50.920 I don't know if I'm late or not. 00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:57.400 I wanted to use this example—you might say I chose an example from a very large company, 00:37:57.400 --> 00:37:58.700 So that doesn't apply to us. 00:37:58.700 --> 00:38:06.820 I wanted to draw a brief comparison of how a company can handle negative publicity at every level. 00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:11.140 And this was definitely a major PR disaster for KFC, 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:14.780 since they experienced a shortage of their main products. 00:38:14.780 --> 00:38:18.780 In 2018, the UK ran out of chicken. 00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:23.740 KFC without chicken—there's no restaurant chain anymore, 00:38:23.740 --> 00:38:28.440 and that's why they've had to close a large number of their restaurants. 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.480 And in the end, what impact did that have on a brand like KFC? 00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.280 There was a huge backlash and it went viral. 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.900 There are plenty of examples like this where you can take two brands, 00:38:38.180 --> 00:38:48.380 I encourage you to take a look at these kinds of examples to see how they handled the situation and how they adapted it to turn it into an opportunity. 00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:55.720 That was the case here, because, as you can see, as I mentioned in my previous message, they used the same method as they did at your level. 00:38:55.720 --> 00:39:04.000 That's really humble and self-deprecating. They weren't trying to justify themselves, so they really are excused. 00:39:05.160 --> 00:39:08.840 And one important point: they didn't blame their supplier. 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:11.500 We suspect it was the supplier's fault, 00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:17.640 because they didn't actually know the details of why they were out of chicken. 00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:21.620 But they didn't say, "Well, it's not our fault—it's our supplier's." 00:39:21.620 --> 00:39:22.960 And that's the same thing—I see it all the time. 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.980 I think you've all received this too, from them, when you're not happy, 00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:32.240 The company responds to you, but it's not us—it's our supplier, etc. 00:39:32.740 --> 00:39:38.420 As a customer, we don't care. We deal with the company; it's up to them to manage their suppliers, etc. 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:45.060 So here, KFC has really taken responsibility, and that really ties in with what Poschia was saying. 00:39:45.060 --> 00:39:49.640 Thanks to the monitoring system, they detected it quickly. 00:39:49.640 --> 00:39:56.200 It's true that a brand like KFC has some pretty powerful tools, but behind the scenes, they've really stepped up their game. 00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:02.760 What matters most, and what’s crucial, is the speed of response, a confident tone of voice, and transparency. 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.200 They explained, but without going into detail. 00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:13.060 And as you can see, it turned out to be an opportunity amid the crisis, since it actually had a positive impact on KFC because it entertained people. 00:40:13.060 --> 00:40:19.760 I think there are other brands in the same vein, like Burger King, that are also very, very strong when it comes to crisis management, etc. 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:26.140 So you can have some fun seeing how they’re handling their crisis and try to figure out how I might do the same on my own level. 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:30.540 inevitably more humble, since we’re so small compared to that kind of company. 00:40:30.540 --> 00:40:37.560 I wanted to talk to you a little bit about AI, because I think that in this room, I assume everyone 00:40:37.560 --> 00:40:44.480 uses ChatGPT, Claude, etc. But I wanted to see how it's used in the context of disreputation, 00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:51.460 because it's really easy to use for your reputation. First of all, 00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:54.960 The thing is, AI really makes things possible—it’s a game-changer. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:59.020 This will help you with the signals, 00:40:59.020 --> 00:41:02.040 all the comments, etc., that you receive when you get a lot of them. 00:41:02.040 --> 00:41:06.040 It can sort them, and turn them into insights 00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:10.140 and, for you, to learn how to act more quickly. 00:41:10.140 --> 00:41:13.480 One important point is that I think we all have the image 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:16.860 and we tell ourselves that AI is wonderful, magical, and automatic. 00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:19.720 No, there's always an upfront investment. 00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:25.220 I wonder how many of you have already implemented a CRM system in your companies, etc. 00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:28.560 But as you might have guessed, it wasn't as easy as snapping your fingers. 00:41:28.560 --> 00:41:34.200 You must have had to implement something—perhaps some very expensive consultants came in to help you implement a tool. 00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:37.240 It's exactly the same with AI here. 00:41:37.240 --> 00:41:44.480 Before you start structuring your data, establishing governance, and so on, there is a need to... 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.680 to make sure he's ready, to make sure he does a good job afterward. 00:41:49.020 --> 00:41:55.600 So it’s not automatic—it’s not like you can just log into ChatGPT tomorrow and tell it, “Build my entire reputation.” 00:41:55.600 --> 00:42:01.520 Because ultimately, you really need to guide and steer them so that they can offer you something that’s right for you. 00:42:01.520 --> 00:42:10.680 So if you set this up, if you make this investment, it will still save you time and boost productivity, 00:42:10.680 --> 00:42:15.000 But once again, you need the right methods and structure; we have to go back to the very beginning, 00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:21.020 As I was saying, it’s important to have a clear plan before choosing the right tools to help you. 00:42:21.020 --> 00:42:28.160 Here are a few examples; as I mentioned, there are hundreds—as I’m sure you know—of AI tools, 00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:35.040 I've listed the most general ones here because I think you're all familiar with them and can still use them. 00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:40.820 My point here is really just to say that I wouldn't tell you that one is better than the other, 00:42:41.540 --> 00:42:44.100 I have my own preference, but I won't tell you. 00:42:44.100 --> 00:42:47.160 But the thing is, it's really up to you to see for yourself, 00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:52.160 to test them and see what each platform has to offer 00:42:52.160 --> 00:42:53.620 and how to make the most of them. 00:42:53.620 --> 00:42:58.840 For example, Perplexity would be great for anything related to sources, 00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.060 when you need documentation, figures, etc. 00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:02.360 That might be interesting. 00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:05.660 Claude will be able to conduct very in-depth analyses 00:43:05.660 --> 00:43:07.720 or give this presentation as well. 00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:12.580 But here's the thing: you can also supplement them. 00:43:12.580 --> 00:43:15.840 For example, I work with several people; I don't just work with one, 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.960 because we tell ourselves—I think everyone gets it— 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.480 People used to say, "It used to be ChatGPT," but now everyone says, "Everyone's on Claude." 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.480 To be perfectly honest, I still use ChatGPT too—I love Claude, 00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.240 but I supplement them. 00:43:27.240 --> 00:43:31.060 And it's also good for the challengers to compete against each other, 00:43:31.060 --> 00:43:35.800 For example—let me give you an example—I think most of you have been using ChatGPT for quite some time now, 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:45.020 And here’s a personal example: if I use the same prompt on certain models, I find that ChatGPT performs better because it knows me better, too. 00:43:45.020 --> 00:43:50.220 He's known me my whole life, and since he's been aware of how I use it for so long, his answer will be better suited to my needs. 00:43:50.220 --> 00:43:53.220 After that, the other person will give me a more in-depth analysis, etc. 00:43:53.220 --> 00:44:02.320 But as I said, you have to test it out. There’s a cost involved—obviously, all these platforms come at a price; they have a business model that needs to be profitable. 00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:09.720 So I encourage you to give them a try—there are free versions available for all of them, so you can test them out. 00:44:09.720 --> 00:44:18.120 GROC’s free version is very limited—you can only do two searches and that’s it—so it’s limited, but ChatGPT, for example, has a free version, and so on. 00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:29.000 So, just to say that it’s an ecosystem and it can help you manage things, but again, you need to follow best practices in this area. 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:35.578 So here, what I’ve done is provide a simple example for you to analyze—as I mentioned at the very beginning—to show that sentiment 00:44:35.578 --> 00:44:38.235 analysis doesn’t require you to use very powerful tools, etc. 00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:49.840 since you can easily do this using the tools I showed you earlier—fetch all your data sources—and then, the next simple step is to create a database. 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:55.621 So you can definitely do this in Excel if you want; you can set up your Excel spreadsheet, and then there’s some manual work involved in 00:44:55.621 --> 00:44:57.742 retrieving the data, but you also have other tools, 00:44:57.700 --> 00:44:59.560 You can automate it; you can plug it in 00:44:59.560 --> 00:45:01.360 For example, Google Sheets—you can connect it 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:03.160 via API to Claude 00:45:03.160 --> 00:45:05.720 so that can make things easier 00:45:05.720 --> 00:45:08.080 Next, the important point 00:45:08.080 --> 00:45:09.040 when you have your data 00:45:09.040 --> 00:45:11.140 and that's what's really important here, too 00:45:11.140 --> 00:45:13.060 The thing is, AI needs that too 00:45:13.060 --> 00:45:14.560 just like your CRM, etc. 00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:17.760 I think you were sold on CRM systems; you were told it would change your life 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.600 customer relations, etc. 00:45:19.600 --> 00:45:21.700 It's the same with AI—if you don't have good data 00:45:21.700 --> 00:45:22.820 if you aren't organized 00:45:22.820 --> 00:45:25.420 If it's not organized, it won't do any good 00:45:25.420 --> 00:45:27.640 so that's why it's like that in the back, too 00:45:27.640 --> 00:45:29.180 and create a good prompt 00:45:29.180 --> 00:45:31.640 So, as you can see, when it comes to the analyses 00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:33.660 when you give it to him after your database 00:45:33.660 --> 00:45:35.900 It's not just about giving him an Excel file or something like that 00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:37.240 and say to him, "Here, analyze me" 00:45:37.240 --> 00:45:39.940 You really need to guide and prepare him 00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:41.220 So, you can make plans for that 00:45:41.220 --> 00:45:44.100 on platforms 00:45:44.100 --> 00:45:45.040 and behind 00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.160 really make sure that it is 00:45:47.160 --> 00:45:49.920 that it sticks 00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:50.500 to meet your needs 00:45:50.500 --> 00:45:52.920 and behind it, it can give you 00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:55.600 a result and let you know 00:45:55.600 --> 00:45:57.560 you have so many percentages 00:45:57.560 --> 00:45:59.720 While there are many positive reviews, some are 00:45:59.720 --> 00:46:01.580 pretty new, etc. So how does it work? 00:46:01.580 --> 00:46:03.780 after, behind, take action 00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:05.640 and that's how you classify it, you see 00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:07.240 we can prioritize 00:46:07.240 --> 00:46:09.580 and here is an example of 00:46:09.580 --> 00:46:11.520 For example, it was about the delivery; I don't remember what I did 00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:13.740 but here's the thing, we've seen that 00:46:13.740 --> 00:46:15.520 What comes up most often is customer service 00:46:15.520 --> 00:46:17.020 It's all about responsiveness, as we said at the beginning 00:46:17.020 --> 00:46:19.840 It's important to respond promptly 00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:21.360 of your customers, so there 00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.020 if this is what you like best 00:46:24.020 --> 00:46:26.620 saying, "Well, I contacted the company, but they never respond," and so on. 00:46:26.620 --> 00:46:32.640 Maybe you should set that up first, before making deliveries 00:46:32.640 --> 00:46:35.380 which are a little less significant, but are still there. 00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:38.540 So I am. 00:46:38.540 --> 00:46:45.280 So if there are a few key points to take away from this presentation, 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:52.760 First and foremost, reputation is a key driver of cybersecurity, 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:56.980 but it is also a driver of growth, as we saw in this presentation. 00:46:56.980 --> 00:47:01.420 Another point, as you mentioned, is that there is a need for structure 00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:04.420 before going out to get the best tools, etc. 00:47:04.420 --> 00:47:07.780 And also to define your goals and KPIs 00:47:07.780 --> 00:47:10.920 to make sure you're heading in the right direction. 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:17.300 Next, as I've shown you, anything that involves negative perceptions, etc. 00:47:17.300 --> 00:47:19.920 We shouldn't just accept this as inevitable, 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:26.020 but we have options to make sure that happens, as you've seen, on a smaller scale—at our level 00:47:26.020 --> 00:47:34.780 and, when dealing with larger companies, negative reviews can actually be used to our advantage 00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:36.920 and use that as a growth driver. 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:44.000 And finally, one last point: AI is indeed accelerating, but there’s one thing to keep in mind—it doesn’t happen automatically 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.760 and that you still need to make an investment 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.280 and that humans can't replace us just yet. 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:54.700 Maybe we can talk in 30 years, or maybe even in 10 years. 00:47:54.700 --> 00:47:58.320 But even today, we’re still needed to manage AI. 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.500 So, AI should be viewed more as an assistant. 00:48:00.500 --> 00:48:05.880 And another thing I forgot to mention about AI is that it also needs to know how to control itself 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.860 because, in fact, when it comes to AI, we often tend to think 00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:11.080 I'm going to do something more complex, something better, 00:48:11.080 --> 00:48:14.360 because it's true that it's much more powerful than our brain. 00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:17.180 But that means it takes us a lot longer. 00:48:17.180 --> 00:48:19.220 So, in the end, we find ourselves in a cycle 00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:23.720 where we spend more time managing a tool 00:48:23.720 --> 00:48:25.540 which was supposed to save us time. 00:48:25.540 --> 00:48:26.620 So that's why—I really mean it— 00:48:26.620 --> 00:48:28.040 organize, list your needs, 00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:30.020 what's in it for you, 00:48:30.020 --> 00:48:31.460 What are your specific needs regarding AI? 00:48:31.460 --> 00:48:33.480 to avoid falling into that cycle. 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:36.060 I'm a bad example, since I do the same thing, 00:48:36.060 --> 00:48:37.600 I spend a lot of time on it, 00:48:37.600 --> 00:48:39.960 So, in the end, it doesn't necessarily always save time, 00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:43.340 but it can be used to do some pretty powerful things. 00:48:43.340 --> 00:48:50.140 Well, thanks for your time, and now let's talk about the legal side of things. 00:48:50.140 --> 00:48:56.480 Thank you so much, thank you very much. 00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:03.580 Last but certainly not least, we have Cecilia PEREGRINA with us. 00:49:03.580 --> 00:49:08.640 You are a lawyer and have practiced law for 15 years at a law firm 00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:10.720 before joining PwC. 00:49:10.720 --> 00:49:15.900 And you mainly specialize in everything related to financial markets 00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:20.780 and in-depth experience in corporate law, 00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:23.960 in mergers and acquisitions, contract law, and bankruptcy law. 00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:26.420 You advise Swiss and international clients 00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:29.220 for any legal issues that may arise 00:49:29.220 --> 00:49:31.720 as part of their day-to-day management and activities, 00:49:31.720 --> 00:49:35.020 particularly in the areas of corporate law and labor law 00:49:35.020 --> 00:49:36.420 and lease law, in particular. 00:49:37.240 --> 00:49:43.660 And you’re going to talk to us—in a world where, as we know, the internet never forgets—about the legal framework and the right to be forgotten. 00:49:43.660 --> 00:49:48.580 Thank you very much for this introduction. Like Nicolas, there’s a lot to take in. 00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:54.040 So, the legal framework and the right to be forgotten. 00:49:54.040 --> 00:50:01.800 A quick overview, some background—because I think it’s important to provide a brief overview of the situation. 00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:08.440 The legal basis—after all, I am a lawyer by training, and that’s why I was chosen for this role. 00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:12.400 Then I tried to put the right to be forgotten into practice. 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:18.380 Honestly, the right to be forgotten isn't a straightforward concept, even for lawyers. 00:50:18.380 --> 00:50:21.540 So I’m going to try to give you an overview of it over the next 25 minutes. 00:50:21.540 --> 00:50:26.740 But the idea is also to keep it brief, summarize the main points, and ultimately get down to the practical details. 00:50:26.740 --> 00:50:28.400 What can I do, after all? 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.580 General background. 00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:37.780 With the advancement of the Internet, there are plenty of great things related to the Internet, 00:50:37.780 --> 00:50:44.300 but now it is possible to store certain information indefinitely on the Internet. 00:50:44.300 --> 00:50:58.480 So, given that, what about a person’s right to demand that certain information about them be made more accessible—or less accessible? 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:06.540 Do we have a right to infinite memory on the Internet, or is it more a matter of the "right to be forgotten"? 00:51:06.540 --> 00:51:12.880 Maybe I asked the AI—several AIs, actually—and then my own brain as well, to try to give me a definition of the right to be forgotten, 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.480 because there is no legal definition that can be found in any law. 00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:20.720 So the right to be forgotten is, after all, a legal principle, 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:35.400 which allows individuals or companies to request that certain information be deleted, made less accessible, or ideally removed from the Internet. 00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:41.720 And when we talk about information, we’re talking about information that isn’t necessarily false when it comes to the right to be forgotten, 00:51:41.720 --> 00:51:50.580 but information that may have become more relevant, that is outdated, or that, because it’s all mixed together, ends up being harmful to you. 00:51:50.580 --> 00:51:53.580 but they aren't necessarily false or incorrect. 00:51:53.580 --> 00:51:58.000 So, let's talk about your options in this regard. 00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:03.580 So, how does the legal framework address this right to be forgotten? 00:52:03.580 --> 00:52:07.880 So, we may have already gone over the "key takeaways," 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:11.140 to give you a little preview of what I'm going to show you today, 00:52:11.140 --> 00:52:14.560 We saw my colleague Nicolas, and my former colleague as well 00:52:14.560 --> 00:52:17.180 explain to you the importance of the right of reply. 00:52:17.180 --> 00:52:27.258 So my goal is to see, after I’ve answered, whether—in an ideal world—you might be able to have it removed. Unfortunately, that’s going to be very 00:52:27.258 --> 00:52:37.009 difficult, so today, please focus more on Nicolas’s presentation than on mine; perhaps one day the legal framework will be a little more effective. 00:52:36.940 --> 00:52:44.500 For example, even I, while preparing and delivering today’s presentation, noticed that my presentation from two years ago was available online. 00:52:44.500 --> 00:52:50.300 Will I ever have the right to be forgotten, with the CCG making it happen—to just disappear? We’ll see. 00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:58.540 Where did this idea of the "right to be forgotten" come from, anyway? It’s actually a fairly recent concept, at least from a legal standpoint. 00:52:59.860 --> 00:53:10.159 One of the earliest examples, as it is known, is the so-called Google Spain case. A man named Mario Costeja-Gonzalez discovered information online 00:53:10.090 --> 00:53:16.771 stating that he had failed to pay certain debts, even though he had since paid them off in full. 00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:27.446 His financial situation had improved significantly, except that whenever someone—whether it was a credit card company, a prospective landlord, 00:53:27.446 --> 00:53:35.199 or even someone who wanted to negotiate with him—looked him up online, they would see that he had debts. 00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:46.755 And of course, you can imagine that this didn’t help him in his daily life. So, he eventually tried to have that information removed. It wasn’t false. At the time, the 00:53:46.755 --> 00:53:57.640 information was accurate and had been properly published online. But over time, that information—which had ultimately become outdated—was causing him harm. 00:53:57.160 --> 00:54:11.358 What did he do? As his name suggests, Mr. X lived in Spain. He went to the Court of Justice of the European Union and asked Google—specifically Google 00:54:11.358 --> 00:54:20.638 Spain and Google Inc.—to remove the search results that appeared when his name was entered online. 00:54:21.060 --> 00:54:29.420 The Court of Justice of the European Union did indeed rule that the continued publication of this information became inappropriate over time. 00:54:29.420 --> 00:54:36.700 As a result, European authorities have recognized the right to request the removal of links. 00:54:36.700 --> 00:54:47.740 Obviously, you can't always ask for a delisting—it's such a terrible word—without having a balance. 00:54:47.740 --> 00:54:55.447 There’s also this idea of the right to memory; even though we’re here, with so many media outlets present, there’s still the 00:54:55.447 --> 00:54:58.212 media’s right to publish certain information. 00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:07.720 So, ultimately, the individual’s right to have this content removed must be weighed against what may be a public interest in preserving this information. 00:55:07.720 --> 00:55:17.500 Removing a link is also very convenient, but that doesn't mean the original information isn't still accessible. 00:55:17.740 --> 00:55:28.944 You might want to try searching for "Mario Costeggia-Gonzalez" on your computers—those of you who are using a computer. Unfortunately, the 00:55:28.944 --> 00:55:35.698 original post he tried to have removed is still there, and it’s still easy to find. 00:55:36.220 --> 00:55:38.720 I put it back there, to be forgotten. 00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:43.900 The problem, I think, is that Google didn't necessarily follow up on his request, did it? 00:55:43.900 --> 00:55:47.980 Since this has become such a landmark ruling, has everyone been talking about it? 00:55:47.980 --> 00:55:54.480 And so it’s almost in the public interest to still be able to find the original page. 00:55:54.480 --> 00:56:01.800 But even though the ruling went in his favor, stories about him are still being published. 00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:13.240 Now, while this decision did have some impact, the fact that it wasn’t 100% effective shows that, for one of the first times, the right to be forgotten was recognized. 00:56:13.240 --> 00:56:26.260 As a result, search engines were held responsible for the fact that certain personal data appeared in the search results, even if the website itself was not owned by Google. 00:56:26.260 --> 00:56:35.760 Google, for its part, was limited to being a search engine, but search engines do ultimately bear some responsibility, even if the data comes from websites. 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:43.617 And the fact that certain results are grouped together—which, in this case, is effectively Google’s doing—the fact that certain results are 00:56:43.617 --> 00:56:49.429 grouped together on a single page can indeed infringe on privacy, which was the case here with Mr. Gonzales. 00:56:49.160 --> 00:57:00.740 So it’s true that this was one of the first major milestones, and it led to certain innovations in various platforms and search engines, which I’ll discuss later. 00:57:00.740 --> 00:57:04.240 That is the general context of the right to be forgotten. 00:57:04.240 --> 00:57:17.120 Now, if we turn to the legal basis, you can see that there is, in fact, a court that has ordered Google Spain and Google Inc. to remove certain information from search results. 00:57:17.620 --> 00:57:23.560 What if we were in Switzerland instead of Spain? 00:57:23.560 --> 00:57:29.860 Unfortunately, Switzerland does not have a specific legal framework governing the right to be forgotten. 00:57:29.860 --> 00:57:34.260 This is not explicitly provided for in Swiss law. 00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:41.900 It's more like a patchwork—a real patchwork of all sorts of laws that need to be brought together. 00:57:41.900 --> 00:57:44.040 And then there are several accents. 00:57:44.240 --> 00:57:49.900 On the one hand, there is the concept of personal data protection, which goes hand in hand with your right to privacy. 00:57:49.900 --> 00:57:58.520 And then you might say, everyone hears about data protection, but doesn’t this great data protection law still allow for a certain “right to be forgotten”? 00:57:58.520 --> 00:58:03.020 Yes, that's right, and that will be the second slide. So these two strands run parallel to each other. 00:58:03.820 --> 00:58:13.190 So, ultimately, the true basis—the primary basis—for the right to be forgotten is Article 28 of the Civil Code, which states that anyone who suffers an unlawful 00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:20.970 infringement of their personality rights may take legal action to protect themselves against any person involved in such an infringement. 00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:29.140 And when it comes to personal rights, there are indeed a great many of them, including the right to privacy, the right to a good reputation, and so on. 00:58:29.140 --> 00:58:32.160 And so we can include the right to be forgotten in that. 00:58:33.260 --> 00:58:43.744 This protection applies to any actual or potential infringement; we’ll see—there may even be opportunities to take action proactively, 00:58:43.744 --> 00:58:50.457 before publication—and this remedy is available to both individuals and legal entities. 00:58:50.080 --> 00:59:01.728 So, that’s a major advantage of Article 28 of the Civil Code. Then there’s criminal law—I think you’re familiar with those terms. Defamation and slander exist 00:59:01.728 --> 00:59:12.888 and will continue to exist. Criminal law, therefore, can help you. But defamation and slander involve publishing information online that is fundamentally false. 00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:20.296 So, this isn't a "right to be forgotten." In this case, criminal law can help you if there was information about you that was actually incorrect, 00:59:20.243 --> 00:59:24.487 or if you were called a fraudster even though you did absolutely nothing wrong. 00:59:24.540 --> 00:59:34.237 Such matters may be covered by criminal law, allowing you to actually have the person who called you a scammer online convicted, but that 00:59:34.167 --> 00:59:39.190 won't necessarily remove the comment in which they called you a scammer. 00:59:39.260 --> 00:59:44.220 So this will allow for criminal penalties, but it won't give you the right to be forgotten. 00:59:44.220 --> 00:59:51.000 Even so, our legal systems have had a certain understanding of the right to be forgotten for a very long time. 00:59:51.000 --> 01:00:00.624 For example, if you are convicted, after a certain amount of time, your criminal record will be cleared—depending, of course, on the 01:00:00.624 --> 01:00:04.331 nature of the offense and the time that has elapsed. 01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:12.407 So the right to be forgotten does exist after all. For example, when it comes to a criminal record, the question is whether it has been mentioned on the 01:00:12.407 --> 01:00:20.394 Internet—and as we’ve said, the Internet never disappears. So if it’s mentioned on the Internet that you’ve been convicted, even if you have a 01:00:20.394 --> 01:00:25.240 clean record, someone searching online might find out that you were convicted 30 years ago. 01:00:26.780 --> 01:00:28.740 What should we do? We'll talk about it later. 01:00:28.740 --> 01:00:38.769 Constitutional law as well—so this is truly enshrined in the Constitution. You have the right to privacy; you have the right to informational 01:00:38.769 --> 01:00:48.589 self-determination. It’s a very broad concept that means everyone has the right to be protected against the misuse of data concerning them. 01:00:48.380 --> 01:00:56.539 So, that’s unfair employment practices. There are also other public laws that will protect you. I’ve listed a few examples. For instance, 01:00:56.539 --> 01:01:01.193 the Canton of Geneva has been very proactive regarding the right to be forgotten. 01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:10.841 Article 21A of our Constitution explicitly enshrines the right to privacy and the protection of one’s digital life, and the term “right 01:01:10.841 --> 01:01:15.611 to be forgotten” is mentioned in that article of the Constitution. 01:01:15.260 --> 01:01:24.440 But this is a provision that is still relatively new, and—like the LIPAD—it will ultimately give you the right to be forgotten when it comes to the government. 01:01:24.700 --> 01:01:29.140 So it is a right vis-à-vis the state, not a private right between individuals. 01:01:29.140 --> 01:01:34.300 And there you have it; then there are international protections, such as Article 8 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights, which we’re all familiar with. 01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:43.500 And it’s true that those laws were somewhat the inspiration for all the modern data protection laws we have today, 01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:46.580 including the EU General Data Protection Regulation and the corresponding national data protection law. 01:01:46.580 --> 01:01:51.260 That brings me to the topic of data protection. 01:01:52.320 --> 01:02:00.640 So we have the data protection law—I think you’re all familiar with it—the GDPR, which is the European General Data Protection Regulation. 01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:09.540 So the GDPR may apply in Switzerland; typically, if you process data from European customers, the GDPR may apply to you. 01:02:09.540 --> 01:02:17.760 And the GDPR does indeed have a specific article that enshrines the right to be forgotten. 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:29.180 Unfortunately, our data protection law does not provide the same rights as the European regulation. 01:02:29.180 --> 01:02:38.240 On the other hand, the Data Protection Act will allow you to access your data, which may be important if—for example, when dealing with the 01:02:38.240 --> 01:02:43.919 government or other companies—you aren’t necessarily sure what data they have on you. 01:02:43.660 --> 01:02:50.300 Companies will be required to provide you with access to this data, and you will have the right to request corrections. 01:02:50.300 --> 01:02:53.180 In this case, there is still an error in your data. 01:02:53.180 --> 01:03:01.240 And above all, when it comes to the concept of the right to be forgotten, this will give you the right to request that such data be erased or deleted 01:03:01.240 --> 01:03:06.660 if the company retains this data even though it no longer needs to. 01:03:06.660 --> 01:03:14.960 The Data Protection Act establishes the principle that you may collect personal data only for a specific purpose and for a limited period of time. 01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:23.320 If this purpose has been fulfilled and no longer applies, or if the retention period has expired, you may request that this data be deleted. 01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:34.380 It is true that the Data Protection Act can serve as a supplement to Article 28 of the Civil Code. I will give you a few examples later. 01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:42.140 The downside of the data protection law is that it does not apply to legal entities. 01:03:42.140 --> 01:03:51.400 If your company is the one affected—say, KFC—KFC would not be able to invoke data protection laws, even if such laws exist in the United States. 01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:59.940 The problem is also that if the data has been anonymized, you won't be able to invoke data protection laws. 01:04:00.120 --> 01:04:06.140 There need to be names listed; it needs to be data so that you can invoke the Data Protection Act. 01:04:06.140 --> 01:04:16.040 So even if the data is anonymized, if we enter multiple pieces of information or if Google, through various websites, is able to re-identify you, 01:04:16.040 --> 01:04:24.340 That said, each piece of data on its own is anonymized, so data protection laws won’t be of much use to you. 01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:34.100 Now that I’ve bombarded you with all this legal jargon, how can we try to put some of it into practice? 01:04:34.100 --> 01:04:38.020 What actions could you actually take? 01:04:38.020 --> 01:04:47.200 So, I’ve listed six points that I think are important before I go over the steps. 01:04:47.200 --> 01:04:50.040 That's kind of depressing; I'm sorry. 01:04:51.520 --> 01:04:59.620 Deleting or correcting data online can be complicated, especially if the website is hosted overseas. 01:04:59.620 --> 01:05:04.760 We’ll talk about that, but I might give you a few examples from Switzerland. 01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:13.180 We have solutions. Unfortunately, however, the largest platforms and many websites are not based in Switzerland. 01:05:13.180 --> 01:05:16.580 So, this complicates the legal solutions. 01:05:17.380 --> 01:05:23.140 Second, an online publication—even if the website is attacked, even if Google is attacked, 01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:26.440 Next, we need to tackle Yahoo, Bing, etc. 01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:30.480 And as mentioned, there might be a screenshot, there might be comments, 01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:35.480 So it becomes very difficult to completely delete data from the Internet. 01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:41.460 Next, as you'll see, there are really two options when it comes to the various actions. 01:05:41.700 --> 01:05:44.680 either it's de-listing, de-indexing, 01:05:44.680 --> 01:05:47.620 that is, the idea of asking the search engine 01:05:47.620 --> 01:05:51.700 when you type in your name, when you type something into Google, 01:05:51.700 --> 01:05:54.100 Some websites are disappearing. 01:05:54.100 --> 01:05:55.720 So that's what delisting is. 01:05:55.720 --> 01:06:00.080 But just because it has been delisted doesn't mean the website itself no longer exists. 01:06:00.080 --> 01:06:03.640 So if someone enters, for example, the website's direct URL, 01:06:03.640 --> 01:06:05.000 The website, however, will remain. 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:08.620 But it's true that delisting alone can be helpful. 01:06:09.860 --> 01:06:17.420 And then there's Versus—this time, you really need to go find the website and make sure the data is deleted from the main site. 01:06:17.420 --> 01:06:26.780 Thus, the LPD provides for specific measures that can be implemented even without judicial proceedings. 01:06:26.780 --> 01:06:31.500 This is one of the benefits of data protection law; you aren't necessarily required to go to court. 01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:39.060 You can contact the individual or company that manages your data directly, without necessarily first obtaining a court order. 01:06:39.860 --> 01:06:44.160 So, as a result, both 28 CCs continue to operate in parallel. 01:06:44.160 --> 01:06:50.020 And then, and I think this is actually the most important point of the presentation, 01:06:50.020 --> 01:06:56.020 The fact is that search engines and other online platforms have internal procedures in place 01:06:56.020 --> 01:06:59.540 so that you can ask them to delete it. 01:06:59.540 --> 01:07:04.800 I can already see some skeptical looks, but I'm afraid this is the most effective option. 01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:07.080 So you'll see just how different everyone else is. 01:07:09.860 --> 01:07:22.400 There are two main types of actions based on Article 28 of the Civil Code. The first is Article 28A of the Civil Code, which allows you to bring preventive actions. 01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:30.935 This might allow you—if you know in advance that something is going to be published about you—to ask the courts to block that 01:07:30.935 --> 01:07:34.677 publication, effectively taking action before it happens. 01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:41.700 That’s definitely a major advantage of Article 28cc: it tries to nip negative buzz in the bud before it even starts. 01:07:41.700 --> 01:07:53.043 And if, unfortunately, you were unable to get it removed, you can then ask the person who posted certain information about you to stop 01:07:52.959 --> 01:07:57.796 posting it or prohibit them from posting it in the future, 01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:04.660 or at least establish that the publication was contrary to your character. 01:08:04.660 --> 01:08:10.820 In addition, the following Section 28cc also grants you the right of reply. 01:08:10.820 --> 01:08:13.380 We have seen that the responses are indeed very effective. 01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:17.680 So if there isn't an option on the website to reply, 01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:27.020 You can always go to court and ask for that "reply" button to be displayed and for you to be granted the right of reply. 01:08:27.020 --> 01:08:34.380 And we can see that the right of reply is, after all, a very effective tool that can be invoked in court. 01:08:34.380 --> 01:08:43.040 Now, the scope of Article 28 of the Civil Code is obviously subject to the geographical application of Article 28 of the Civil Code. 01:08:43.040 --> 01:08:53.020 Without getting into a legal lecture, it is possible to sue Google Inc. here in Switzerland, since you are in Switzerland and the incident took place in Switzerland. 01:08:53.020 --> 01:09:01.840 I'm not saying it always works, but depending on the circumstances, it's not impossible that Google Inc. could end up in a Geneva court over this. 01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:04.640 Now, Google Inc. will be here. 01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:11.500 If Google Inc. refuses to comply with the Geneva judge’s order, it will still have to return to the United States. 01:09:11.500 --> 01:09:14.020 So, it's not really that simple. 01:09:14.020 --> 01:09:16.140 So, just having the lures here is already something. 01:09:16.140 --> 01:09:23.120 But after that, to enforce the ruling you received here in Switzerland, you’ll have no choice but to go to the United States. 01:09:23.120 --> 01:09:29.320 And then, in everything we do, there’s always that need to weigh the pros and cons. 01:09:29.320 --> 01:09:36.140 The thing is, even Google has freedom of speech. People have freedom of speech. 01:09:36.140 --> 01:09:44.720 We know that in a democracy, it is important to have a free press that can speak out publicly. 01:09:44.860 --> 01:09:53.463 And so, there is perhaps also the argument that it is in our best interest for this information to ultimately remain on the internet. Consequently, there 01:09:53.352 --> 01:10:01.844 will always be a balancing of interests between, on the one hand, the concepts of memory, freedom of expression, and economic freedom versus, on the other 01:10:01.844 --> 01:10:07.469 hand, your right to privacy and the right to have certain data deleted after a certain period of time. 01:10:10.320 --> 01:10:14.600 Next, we have the actions based this time on the Data Protection Act. 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:18.560 As I mentioned here, unfortunately, this applies only to individuals. 01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:25.680 And then, you’ll be able to request access to your data, correct any inaccurate information, 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:31.880 so really to correct it, and especially to delete certain data if it has become obsolete, 01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:35.020 if they are inadequate, if the company no longer needs to hold them. 01:10:35.020 --> 01:10:39.840 You will see a few examples of case law based on the Data Protection Act 01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:43.400 which ultimately did indeed establish a certain right to be forgotten. 01:10:43.400 --> 01:10:58.440 So, I really had to tell you about what this article—this decision by the European Court of Justice—has ultimately made possible. 01:10:58.440 --> 01:11:05.620 The thing is, most search engines these days—I’ve only picked three, but I think pretty much all search engines 01:11:05.620 --> 01:11:18.287 All online platforms allow you to request the removal of certain search results or to report inappropriate reviews. You now have the 01:11:18.192 --> 01:11:23.485 option to contact the various online platforms directly. 01:11:25.780 --> 01:11:37.137 This right, which is granted to you by various online platforms, applies to both individuals and companies, and it will allow you, on the one hand, to request the 01:11:37.137 --> 01:11:47.728 removal of your listing—which is what we’ve been discussing—and it will be Google, Yahoo, etc., that will enable you to have your listing removed. 01:11:47.380 --> 01:11:55.700 And speaking of negative reviews, you might be able to ask Google to remove a negative review. 01:11:55.700 --> 01:11:58.860 You see, Booking also lets you do that. 01:11:58.860 --> 01:12:03.180 Or Meta also lets you delete certain comments. 01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:08.200 So, in any case, all platforms allow you to request deletion after you’ve received it—we’ll have to see. 01:12:08.200 --> 01:12:11.040 What should you do? 01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:13.440 They're online forms; it's pretty simple. 01:12:14.700 --> 01:12:26.201 However, and this is our advice, if you decide to take this route, you need to be very clear. Don’t just say, “Please delete this comment.” The 01:12:26.201 --> 01:12:37.319 more your request is documented and explained—with screenshots, explanations of the context, and possibly even a letter from a lawyer—if, for 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:43.453 example, that comment could be considered defamation or if the article is false, 01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:52.817 So it’s not just something that’s become obsolete, but if there’s anything truly criminal in that comment—and once again, people are calling you a 01:12:52.817 --> 01:13:02.537 scammer—don’t hesitate to really take the time to make this announcement, because it’s honestly one of the best, fastest, and cheapest solutions. 01:13:01.700 --> 01:13:16.272 So take your time with this request and make sure you do it right. If your request is denied, you can always try again. But really try to provide thorough documentation 01:13:16.272 --> 01:13:29.206 for your request. And if, for example, you have court rulings, include those—it will really help these platforms respond positively to your request. 01:13:30.180 --> 01:13:37.720 From now on, the search engine will evaluate content based on its own internal rules and policies. 01:13:37.720 --> 01:13:42.980 It's not a law. There is no law requiring Google to remove search results. 01:13:42.980 --> 01:13:53.260 When you do things like that, the reason Google will remove your site from its search results is because they’ve stipulated it in their own internal guidelines. 01:13:53.260 --> 01:13:56.740 These rules may vary from one platform to another. 01:13:57.440 --> 01:14:05.052 On top of that, there’s a complete lack of transparency, and we’re not entitled to an explanation as to why they’ve de-indexed something in one 01:14:05.052 --> 01:14:10.177 instance, why they’ve deleted an article in another, and why they haven’t done so in yet another. 01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:16.560 So, I'd say there really isn't any consistency when it comes to the results. 01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:23.900 And it's true that, on top of that, when it comes to the internet, if you typically request that a link be removed, you can try doing so on Google. 01:14:24.400 --> 01:14:27.340 Then you'll have to do it again on Bing, and on Yahoo, and so on. 01:14:27.340 --> 01:14:31.260 if you really want it to go away. 01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:37.260 I'm going to see the... 01:14:37.260 --> 01:14:42.500 I have provided you with a few examples from Swiss case law. 01:14:42.500 --> 01:14:44.320 I haven't found any case law examples 01:14:44.320 --> 01:14:46.700 truly related to the right to be forgotten, 01:14:46.700 --> 01:14:48.920 as is the case with the Google Spain ruling. 01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:51.120 Instead, I tried to find some stops 01:14:51.120 --> 01:14:53.880 that rely on Article 28 of the Civil Code. 01:14:54.400 --> 01:15:09.700 And these are things we’ve actually known about for a long time and that have already happened several times on television. So in this case, it was an SRG article that 01:15:09.700 --> 01:15:24.010 mentioned that a medical assessment firm (an LLC) and its director tended to consistently issue medical expert opinions that were detrimental to policyholders. 01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:34.220 and, of course, in favor of the insurance company, which inevitably had a very, very negative impact on that company's reputation. 01:15:34.220 --> 01:15:43.660 What did they do? They took the case all the way to federal court, so it probably took a few years to get there. 01:15:43.660 --> 01:15:52.740 They requested that these reports be removed. In federal court, the company succeeded in having one report removed. 01:15:52.740 --> 01:16:03.059 It’s clear that there were several news reports. One report was removed—the SRG had to remove it—and the SRG also had to take steps to ensure 01:16:03.059 --> 01:16:13.587 that the report could no longer be found through search engines. I don’t know how they did it, but that was the federal court’s ruling. They had to 01:16:13.587 --> 01:16:18.537 make sure that the report also disappeared from various search engines. 01:16:18.220 --> 01:16:28.449 What was the federal court's reasoning in this case? The second report was removed because it contained allegations that were factually 01:16:28.375 --> 01:16:32.706 false and could therefore damage the company's reputation. 01:16:32.780 --> 01:16:42.460 So, as you can see, this isn't really a "right to be forgotten," since it was granted because the information was false, and the original report remains online. 01:16:42.460 --> 01:16:52.780 So, there isn't really a "right to be forgotten" here; rather, it involves a lot of effort to get false information removed. 01:16:52.780 --> 01:17:03.045 But what actually happened—and I heard about this recently, for example—is that there was an article that TSR had covered; they mentioned the fact that an 01:17:03.045 --> 01:17:11.954 article had been blocked from publication for several years, but in the end, it was RTS that prevailed and was finally able to publish it. 01:17:11.760 --> 01:17:20.514 There is also the possibility that, if you know an article or a program is going to be published or aired about you, the preventive measures provided 01:17:20.514 --> 01:17:26.058 for in Article 28cc might allow you to have it removed—at least for a certain period of time. 01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:37.040 Another case involving Google Inc. that is also related to data protection law was Google Street View. 01:17:37.040 --> 01:17:40.000 You know that car that drives around taking pictures, 01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:41.240 which then allows you to see. 01:17:41.240 --> 01:17:45.000 The problem is that at first you could see all the faces 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:48.280 of all the people who were walking down the street at that moment. 01:17:48.280 --> 01:17:51.640 It has become something of a public interest issue. 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:56.040 And so, the Federal Data Protection Commissioner filed a lawsuit, 01:17:56.040 --> 01:18:01.300 Ultimately, this is an action taken by the government—specifically, by the Swiss government— 01:18:01.300 --> 01:18:04.020 therefore, the Federal Data Protection Commissioner, 01:18:04.020 --> 01:18:09.460 who took issue with Google Street View, asking them to blur faces very, very thoroughly 01:18:09.460 --> 01:18:12.840 because the blurring that was currently in place wasn't enough. 01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:19.780 So, as you can see here, we’ve actually managed to attract Google Inc. here to Switzerland. 01:18:19.780 --> 01:18:28.220 The court did indeed rule that it had jurisdiction, since the images were taken here in Switzerland. 01:18:28.220 --> 01:18:32.060 So we've had a strong presence here in Switzerland, even against Google Inc. 01:18:32.460 --> 01:18:42.640 And it was determined that the images published by Google Street View did indeed constitute personal data, since people's faces were visible. 01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:47.600 And even with the blurring, the people were still recognizable, so they decided to proceed. 01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:53.120 What did the federal court do? Well, there's always that balancing of interests—always the balancing of interests. 01:18:53.120 --> 01:19:03.300 On the one hand, it pits Google’s economic interests in being able to provide its service against the public interest in having access to 01:19:03.300 --> 01:19:10.353 information and being able to navigate the internet and the streets thanks to Google Street View. 01:19:10.280 --> 01:19:18.850 On the other hand, there was the issue of the right to privacy of the individuals whose faces had not been properly blurred. So there was a balancing of 01:19:18.794 --> 01:19:26.084 interests between the two. And the federal court concluded that the blurring that had been done at the time was still insufficient. 01:19:26.140 --> 01:19:30.140 So they asked Google to blur the images more effectively, to make an effort to... 01:19:30.140 --> 01:19:35.320 On the other hand, when weighing the pros and cons, they didn't expect a 100% result either. 01:19:35.320 --> 01:19:41.800 Otherwise, a 100% result might ultimately mean that the images are deleted. 01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:43.860 And so a balancing of interests took place. 01:19:43.860 --> 01:19:49.860 So we can see that there are indeed some cases where we’re now taking on Google. 01:19:52.840 --> 01:20:03.418 I’m coming to the end of my presentation, and perhaps we can discuss this further together, but to sum it up briefly, the bottom line is that, as you 01:20:03.418 --> 01:20:10.169 can see, these various legal actions do work—but they take time and cost a great deal of money. 01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:20.533 And when it comes to Google, it’s one thing to get them to comply here in Switzerland, but then they actually have to follow through. And if they don’t, this 01:20:20.533 --> 01:20:28.626 time you’ll have to seek out lawyers in the United States to force them to actually remove certain information, and so on. 01:20:28.300 --> 01:20:40.169 So it’s true that, unfortunately, legal action may not be the most effective option right now—perhaps it will become so in the long run—but 01:20:40.169 --> 01:20:47.567 really, the advice is to make effective use of these systems, including the right of reply. 01:20:47.280 --> 01:20:50.060 It doesn't make it easier to forget, but it does help us cope. 01:20:50.060 --> 01:20:54.700 So, really, be sure to read Nicolas' presentation carefully. 01:20:54.700 --> 01:21:02.040 And also, make sure to take the time to actually use the communication tools available on the various platforms. 01:21:02.040 --> 01:21:06.080 Go ahead and submit your request, take your time, and explain what you're asking for. 01:21:06.080 --> 01:21:16.000 And then, even if it means doing everything possible to reach the real person behind all these different personas—it’s not easy, but that’s the point—by persisting. 01:21:16.540 --> 01:21:27.108 Yes, good luck. On the other hand, the good news is that, for example, when it comes to the right to be forgotten—I didn’t necessarily include this in the 01:21:26.849 --> 01:21:37.741 slides—we’ve seen cases involving some of our clients, even quite recently, where the full name was published, whereas in Switzerland, the media may avoid using the 01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:49.501 But in this case, one of our clients’ full name appeared in an online article. So when you searched for their name on Google, part of the article came 01:21:49.501 --> 01:21:56.116 up, and the information in that article caused them some professional reputation issues. 01:21:56.640 --> 01:22:06.933 So, what happened was that a letter from a lawyer was sent to the newspaper—which, fortunately, was a Swiss newspaper, so that helped. And the Swiss 01:22:06.933 --> 01:22:13.409 newspaper did, after weighing the various interests involved, decide to grant a right of reply. 01:22:13.340 --> 01:22:20.876 So the article now includes an explanation from the customer about what actually happened, since the information in the article wasn't 01:22:20.876 --> 01:22:26.067 false—it was, in fact, true at a certain point in time—but a lot had happened since then. 01:22:26.080 --> 01:22:37.846 So, the customer was finally able to explain the whole story. And then, the article was eventually removed from the free version. As a result, to access the full article, you 01:22:37.846 --> 01:22:49.142 now have to pay for a subscription to that newspaper. And so, it’s no longer indexed on the internet. So, if you search for his name now, you can’t find it anymore. 01:22:48.940 --> 01:22:58.914 So, when it comes to Swiss companies, what we see is that perhaps the concept of the 28 CC, which Swiss companies are familiar with, and the concept of the 01:22:58.914 --> 01:23:08.185 right of reply are also well-known, so we don’t necessarily need to go to court to obtain that information; but unfortunately, once again, with 01:23:08.185 --> 01:23:12.980 Swiss companies, there was still some information that remained incomplete. 01:23:12.980 --> 01:23:23.491 So, if something is entirely true but has simply become outdated, and if we ask *Bilan* magazine to remove information that has become outdated, they might not necessarily 01:23:23.491 --> 01:23:34.002 do so, since there is a public interest in keeping certain information available—though perhaps with a right of reply, stating that it is no longer true today, and so on. 01:23:33.940 --> 01:23:39.220 That's all. I'll see you during the Q&A. 01:23:42.980 --> 01:23:55.013 — I can still address some of the points. No, no, but that’s interesting. First of all, to explain: In Switzerland, we don’t 01:23:55.013 --> 01:24:00.800 publish names, unless the person is considered a public figure. 01:24:00.580 --> 01:24:08.744 Otherwise, we’re not allowed to do that. It’s true that this isn’t necessarily the case in other countries. But for us, that’s the rule. And as for the right of 01:24:08.744 --> 01:24:16.038 reply, to avoid that, generally speaking, if the journalist does their job properly, they contact the person concerned before the article is published. 01:24:16.060 --> 01:24:23.111 And in fact, the right of reply often comes later, when the person in question realizes that the article is actually quite unfavorable and 01:24:23.111 --> 01:24:26.053 then says, “But actually, now I’m going to respond.” 01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:33.080 But sometimes it’s because they didn’t want to answer us earlier. Anyway, that’s not what we’re here to discuss today. Thank you very much for your presentations. 01:24:33.080 --> 01:24:43.200 Perhaps this also ties in a bit with the conclusion of your presentation, Cecilia—it’s a question I wanted to ask the other two as well. 01:24:44.140 --> 01:24:47.720 Finally, all the best practices you’ve shared with us, 01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:51.120 Are these tips applicable to small and medium-sized businesses? 01:24:51.120 --> 01:24:53.040 Does this apply to small businesses? 01:24:53.040 --> 01:24:56.560 Because it does require a lot of resources, 01:24:56.560 --> 01:25:01.120 personal investments—not necessarily financial, but involving people. 01:25:01.120 --> 01:25:07.040 Can these be applied to a very small organization? 01:25:12.560 --> 01:25:28.305 So, I’d say yes. Obviously, the goal isn’t to get bogged down in red tape like a large corporation—with a whole governance structure, tons of procedures, 01:25:28.305 --> 01:25:41.885 and processes—but rather to put in place systems that are still relevant and, let’s say, fairly tailored to the size of your business. 01:25:41.180 --> 01:25:51.848 So, at the very least, we’re not asking you to implement—as I was saying—a whole range of procedures, but at least a digital communication policy. It 01:25:51.848 --> 01:26:01.832 doesn’t seem like much, and anyone can write one. Securing your accounts is the same—it applies to everyone, including SMEs and startups—but 01:26:01.832 --> 01:26:08.534 still, it’s always better to put some things in place—at the very least—than nothing at all. 01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:20.540 I completely agree with that. You can build a factory if you have the budget, but we can start smaller. 01:26:20.540 --> 01:26:23.940 Actually, there’s no secret to it—you still have to put in the effort. 01:26:23.940 --> 01:26:26.580 There’s no getting around it—it requires an initial investment. 01:26:26.580 --> 01:26:32.040 That's why I also tried in my presentation to outline the priorities for you and to define the strategy behind them, 01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:39.960 because it won't help you find your way and avoid going off in all directions, since, after all, you can go fast and far. 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:44.620 So it really comes down to setting your goals and figuring out how to achieve them. 01:26:44.620 --> 01:26:51.520 And little by little, I think by incorporating that, along with your monitoring and best practices for cybersecurity and other areas, 01:26:51.520 --> 01:26:53.780 Little by little, it'll get faster. 01:26:53.780 --> 01:27:02.040 That’s what I often tell my teams who don’t like tracking their activities, for example, and who say it takes too much time, etc. 01:27:02.040 --> 01:27:08.700 It's kind of the same thing here, and I tell them—I really push them on this—and usually they hate me for it. 01:27:09.580 --> 01:27:13.320 But it's an initial investment they make at the start, 01:27:13.320 --> 01:27:16.940 but then, once the entire structure is in place behind it, 01:27:16.940 --> 01:27:22.200 if we can automate it or even set aside a little time each day, 01:27:22.200 --> 01:27:24.880 or things like that—after that, it’ll go faster. 01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:28.380 And today, I know that I’ve received feedback from my teams thanking me for that, 01:27:28.380 --> 01:27:31.500 because it's easier, and they know what they're doing, too. 01:27:31.500 --> 01:27:35.520 And with tracking, it’s more automated—it’s basically become second nature. 01:27:35.700 --> 01:27:40.020 So it's true that there is still a small initial investment required 01:27:40.020 --> 01:27:43.620 and that you have to push yourself to actually do what's most fun, 01:27:43.620 --> 01:27:46.500 but it pays off in the end—I guarantee it. 01:27:46.500 --> 01:27:53.040 When it comes to that line of thought, there are actually several questions that arise, 01:27:53.040 --> 01:27:56.260 After all, isn't it better if we don't have the means to implement this, 01:27:56.260 --> 01:28:00.260 to be virtually nonexistent online, in communications, 01:28:00.260 --> 01:28:02.380 rather than doing it wrong? 01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:15.144 So, even if you’re not officially registered, if you have a business, you’ll at least be listed in the commercial registry. And unless I’m 01:28:15.144 --> 01:28:25.947 mistaken, I think that once you’re in the commercial registry, Google works pretty well, so when you search for your business, you’ll see a page 01:28:25.947 --> 01:28:30.984 pop up with a map, the company name, and the option to leave reviews. 01:28:30.400 --> 01:28:33.200 So, actually, I think that even if you don't want to be online 01:28:33.200 --> 01:28:35.160 it's hard not to be 01:28:35.160 --> 01:28:37.420 and besides, I'm no expert 01:28:37.420 --> 01:28:39.180 in communication, but I'm not sure 01:28:39.180 --> 01:28:40.720 than I personally 01:28:40.720 --> 01:28:42.840 97% of people 01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:45.420 If I can't find the company, I'm going to think something's fishy 01:28:45.420 --> 01:28:47.460 But that's just my personal opinion 01:28:47.460 --> 01:28:50.980 exactly 01:28:50.980 --> 01:28:52.900 I'm going to say exactly the same thing 01:28:52.900 --> 01:28:55.580 That's right—you must exist 01:28:55.580 --> 01:28:57.620 I left that 01:28:57.620 --> 01:28:59.740 It's appropriate to discuss this at that level 01:28:59.740 --> 01:29:05.920 So, really, it’s better to take action and do something rather than just fade into the background. 01:29:05.920 --> 01:29:10.640 Because, really, I think that every time you think of your customers, you should remember that you’re a customer too. 01:29:10.640 --> 01:29:19.580 So put yourself in their shoes and just ask yourself, as he said, if you were looking for a company, 01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:23.960 that you only see its listing, but that there’s no history behind it, no reviews. 01:29:23.960 --> 01:29:25.940 I have exactly the same reaction. 01:29:25.940 --> 01:29:29.940 I keep thinking, something's fishy here, there's something behind this—does this company even exist? 01:29:29.940 --> 01:29:34.940 She's active and she can be, but ultimately, that doesn't necessarily reflect well on the company. 01:29:34.940 --> 01:29:38.320 So yes, sorry, you've got a little work to do on that. 01:29:38.320 --> 01:29:41.460 There you go—now you know. 01:29:41.460 --> 01:29:47.860 You didn't mention building a Moneyhouse-style database that collects data, 01:29:47.860 --> 01:29:50.940 It calculates a reputation score—what should I do? 01:29:50.940 --> 01:29:52.440 Good question. 01:29:54.440 --> 01:30:05.118 So I mentioned the database—again, that’s what I said—I’m not talking about specific tools because I could give you plenty of them. For example, I work with large 01:30:05.118 --> 01:30:15.609 companies using tools like ThioSprinkler or similar ones, which are pretty powerful tools. That’s why I don’t know—I don’t know you, I don’t know your budget, 01:30:14.860 --> 01:30:19.340 So, I think there’s also a first question: what’s your budget? 01:30:19.340 --> 01:30:22.780 So a database is indeed very important. 01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:26.040 I think you already know this, anyway—you do it for your clients. 01:30:26.040 --> 01:30:32.660 If you've set up a CRM system or an Excel spreadsheet to track your customers, you know full well how important it is. 01:30:32.660 --> 01:30:34.380 So that's exactly the same thing. 01:30:34.380 --> 01:30:38.100 That's what I said at the beginning: structure. 01:30:38.100 --> 01:30:44.140 Then, of course, choose the right tool for your needs based on your budget, your investment, and so on. 01:30:44.140 --> 01:30:47.140 and behind every tool, I can give you tools 01:30:47.140 --> 01:30:49.360 that cost nothing, an Excel file 01:30:49.360 --> 01:30:51.500 and tools that cost much more 01:30:51.500 --> 01:30:52.860 you need consultants to back you up 01:30:52.860 --> 01:30:55.180 and very expensive to install as well 01:30:55.180 --> 01:30:56.860 so, actually, it really is 01:30:56.860 --> 01:30:59.420 tailored to you and your approach 01:30:59.420 --> 01:31:16.900 So, it's not a database that we can use. 01:31:16.900 --> 01:31:25.920 It's a provider that collects data from a wide variety of sources, such as the commercial registry, the FAO, and similar sources—it's official. 01:31:26.360 --> 01:31:34.080 But it also collects data that we have no control over—supposedly related to billing or other matters—and uses it to generate a credit score. 01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:43.160 And the real issue here is that we have no control over how it collects that data and no control over its scoring algorithm. 01:31:43.160 --> 01:31:46.280 So the underlying question was very specific. 01:31:46.280 --> 01:31:49.420 Indeed, one cannot claim a right to be forgotten that does not exist. 01:31:49.420 --> 01:31:52.500 What should we do? 01:31:52.500 --> 01:31:56.580 And there was a big debate at one point because some of those companies nearly went out of business 01:31:56.580 --> 01:31:59.860 because I believe there have been efforts to ban them in Switzerland. 01:31:59.860 --> 01:32:02.120 But they ended up somewhere else, etc. 01:32:02.120 --> 01:32:03.340 So those are real problems. 01:32:03.340 --> 01:32:08.840 Another issue I can mention is that, in the meantime, I had some fun asking Tchad GPT to create a reputation for someone. 01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:11.200 And you realize that these tools build reputations. 01:32:11.200 --> 01:32:16.380 They assign a reputation based on a few signals over which we have absolutely no control. 01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:24.260 So what you're actually saying is that we need to go check or do that, but we don't know how to use these tools. 01:32:24.260 --> 01:32:34.240 So, in practical terms, what should an SME do? Should they proactively send out positive signals, and if so, what kind, in order to try to outperform the competition? 01:32:34.240 --> 01:32:40.500 Or, on the contrary, we try to fly under the radar. What do we do? Because we don't have big budgets. 01:32:41.780 --> 01:32:49.900 Actually, I imagine you don't have huge budgets, and that's why I was saying about the proactive approach, 01:32:49.900 --> 01:32:57.420 and if you target the right audience through actions—as I demonstrated, for example, in my response to the reviews—you can gradually build that base, 01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:01.500 I know that if I looked around a bit among you, that's exactly how I'd end up finding a negative review, 01:33:01.500 --> 01:33:07.180 Some of them don't have a Google listing, so when people search for you, you don't show up with reviews, etc. 01:33:07.580 --> 01:33:13.120 So it's not a huge investment at this stage, but it's the first step. 01:33:13.120 --> 01:33:20.800 Also, once you’ve got a client and you’ve finished the job, it’s pretty easy to ask them afterward if they’d be willing to leave a review, etc. 01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:27.820 It's important to raise their awareness. Generally speaking, customers are pretty open-minded. 01:33:27.820 --> 01:33:30.860 Whenever someone asks me to do something, I usually do it. 01:33:30.860 --> 01:33:34.360 It’s true, you might say, that people are more likely to say they’re unhappy. 01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:42.311 That’s why we need to be proactive and reach out to the people who are happy, because I think I can ask here: do people—and I’m included in 01:33:42.311 --> 01:33:46.559 this—tend to speak up more when they’re unhappy than when they’re happy? 01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:55.240 So, yes, it does take some work and some investment, but I don't think it's a huge investment at this stage, and your customers are the ones who can really build your reputation. 01:33:55.240 --> 01:34:02.180 So that's really what it comes down to: going up to them and telling them, "Okay, you're done. I don't know what your line of work is, 01:34:02.180 --> 01:34:07.560 But besides telling them, could you leave a quick review on Google or the platforms you use, on social media, etc.? 01:34:07.560 --> 01:34:15.100 What will make up for—and perhaps even offset—all these platforms where we don’t necessarily have control is that it’s proactive. 01:34:15.100 --> 01:34:21.119 What if, instead of just giving a 5-star or 4-star rating, we also took the time to explain things to them, to ask them for their input? 01:34:21.076 --> 01:34:23.257 After all, as I said, the customers are the media. 01:34:23.420 --> 01:34:30.640 So they'll be the ones handling your communications in the end, and you won't have to make any further investments—if that answers your question. 01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:41.374 So, from a legal standpoint, I do understand the frustration this causes, and as you saw in my presentation, unfortunately there really aren’t 01:34:41.374 --> 01:34:49.147 many—let’s say truly legal—solutions against these platforms, especially if they’re based abroad. 01:34:48.480 --> 01:34:57.662 It’s true that now, with data protection laws and the GDPR, this may have given people a little more power, but these companies still need 01:34:57.662 --> 01:35:02.025 to be based in jurisdictions where such data protection laws exist. 01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:14.660 Generally speaking, a company cannot collect sensitive personal data about you without a valid reason and then publish it for free on the Internet, etc. 01:35:14.900 --> 01:35:24.816 So there you go—maybe the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) could help. Now, if we’re talking about an American company, for example, data protection 01:35:24.816 --> 01:35:34.426 laws in the United States are much, much more limited, and they really have a different perspective. They emphasize the right to know—specifically, who did 01:35:34.426 --> 01:35:43.607 what—and freedom of expression. And so the right to be forgotten in the United States is virtually nonexistent when weighing the interests involved. 01:35:44.900 --> 01:35:54.060 Are there any tools available for automating this kind of thing, and if so, what’s the current status? 01:35:54.060 --> 01:35:58.260 I suppose they already exist, but are they effective? 01:35:58.260 --> 01:36:02.920 So, wherever they are, they're doing just fine. 01:36:02.920 --> 01:36:10.240 Once again, it depends on which one, it depends on where, and that's why we talked about the budget. 01:36:10.240 --> 01:36:15.060 I think that, in this regard, I can indeed offer you some more expensive options. 01:36:15.060 --> 01:36:16.320 But there are ways to do it. 01:36:16.320 --> 01:36:24.340 If you're a bit of a tinker, too, you can do some interesting things with AI and integrate our tools. 01:36:24.340 --> 01:36:29.060 I always come back to the fact that it requires an investment. 01:36:29.060 --> 01:36:35.620 To use my metaphor again, you can buy a Ferrari, but if you don't know how to drive it, it's useless. 01:36:35.620 --> 01:36:38.500 So, yes, maybe start with some simple tools. 01:36:39.180 --> 01:36:41.940 I can provide you with a list of tools that can automate 01:36:41.940 --> 01:36:45.220 That's true, but maybe we should start off pretty simply 01:36:45.220 --> 01:36:48.740 First and foremost, to assess and, above all, define your goals 01:36:48.740 --> 01:36:52.340 Rather than investing, I won't take on consulting work 01:36:52.340 --> 01:36:56.180 That's bad practice; I won't invest in such an expensive tool 01:36:56.180 --> 01:36:58.960 right away, but rather try it out first 01:36:58.960 --> 01:37:02.560 by really defining all these goals, by tracking 01:37:02.560 --> 01:37:05.440 and then you'll see what you need 01:37:05.440 --> 01:37:08.320 and then you can go do some market research 01:37:08.320 --> 01:37:10.120 to find out which tool is best for you 01:37:10.120 --> 01:37:11.560 which one will be the best fit 01:37:11.560 --> 01:37:14.160 but there are options for every budget 01:37:14.160 --> 01:37:18.660 One more question 01:37:18.660 --> 01:37:21.180 It's all about spontaneity 01:37:21.180 --> 01:37:23.120 Doesn't that break a little? 01:37:23.120 --> 01:37:25.360 agility, spontaneity 01:37:25.360 --> 01:37:27.240 of these small businesses 01:37:27.240 --> 01:37:29.840 in their communication? 01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:31.240 Isn't that me? 01:37:31.240 --> 01:37:37.480 You mean spontaneity? 01:37:37.480 --> 01:37:39.940 I'm thinking of something a little fresh, nothing too overthought. 01:37:39.940 --> 01:37:46.160 If someone is a manager, you're in a certain position and you're in charge of a department or something like that. 01:37:46.160 --> 01:37:48.240 Take Poschia, for example. 01:37:48.240 --> 01:37:53.020 A selfie in front of the logo for a new collaboration. 01:37:53.020 --> 01:38:01.320 But then the question is really what constitutes best practice. 01:38:01.320 --> 01:38:03.680 Or how to store it. 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:07.360 How can we keep that spontaneity? 01:38:07.480 --> 01:38:17.202 Ultimately, the goal is to gain insight. The goal isn't to stifle spontaneity, because the internet and social media are meant for that, too. We value 01:38:17.202 --> 01:38:23.705 authenticity. But at the same time, we mustn't forget the element of control—it's just that simple. 01:38:23.640 --> 01:38:32.984 That’s exactly the question you asked at the beginning: to assess the situation before posting anything—simply ask yourself, 01:38:32.984 --> 01:38:37.547 “Would posting something like this have a negative impact?” 01:38:37.040 --> 01:38:44.979 So maybe it’s just a matter of asking a question before posting—a simple question—and perhaps not going through all the approval 01:38:44.979 --> 01:38:50.154 processes and such, which, of course, can also stifle that authenticity and spontaneity. 01:38:51.360 --> 01:38:58.520 Still, you always have to put controls in place. 01:38:58.520 --> 01:38:59.540 It's always important. 01:38:59.540 --> 01:39:03.020 Because, as has been said time and again, the Internet never forgets. 01:39:03.020 --> 01:39:07.560 So it's best to avoid that; it's better to just check it first and then post. 01:39:07.560 --> 01:39:10.160 It doesn't cost anything, and it only takes about five minutes. 01:39:10.160 --> 01:39:14.860 And post your message along with your beautiful photo. 01:39:14.860 --> 01:39:18.060 That reminds me because... Sorry. 01:39:18.380 --> 01:39:24.000 Yes, I think there's a simple example too, if we take it personally, 01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:30.540 How many people have regretted posting a photo on Facebook or another platform after a night of heavy drinking or something similar, 01:39:30.540 --> 01:39:32.540 and you find yourself thinking, “Ten years later, she’s still here.” 01:39:32.540 --> 01:39:37.300 And in that moment, we didn't think twice; we just went with the flow, acted on impulse, and showed how happy we were. 01:39:37.300 --> 01:39:43.400 So this is really just an example, and I think we can use another fairly simple example, 01:39:43.400 --> 01:39:48.360 When it comes to influencers, people always say, “It looks very spontaneous, but behind the scenes, 01:39:48.380 --> 01:39:54.260 It still takes a lot of preparation—that’s what those who work hard will say, but 01:39:54.260 --> 01:39:59.960 but really, at the end of the day, you either like or dislike the content that 01:39:59.960 --> 01:40:04.100 The content produced mainly by social media is still very carefully curated 01:40:04.100 --> 01:40:10.220 because every word matters, so... spontaneous? Yes and no—that's true 01:40:10.220 --> 01:40:13.580 it has to look like it's spontaneous, but 01:40:13.580 --> 01:40:21.060 But there is still a minimum level of preparation required across all areas—legal, security, and image. 01:40:21.060 --> 01:40:31.480 In the same vein, since the selfie seemed harmless, 01:40:31.480 --> 01:40:39.480 What are the risks that SMEs most often underestimate in this area? 01:40:39.480 --> 01:40:50.591 So people often say that the human factor is frequently the weak link in a company, and it’s precisely this risk that’s often underestimated—because we 01:40:50.591 --> 01:40:59.733 might invest all the necessary resources in tools, adapt our monitoring systems, and put in place everything else that’s needed. 01:40:59.340 --> 01:41:11.108 But we tend to forget that behind every post, there’s a click from a human being. It’s not automated. And behind the scenes, it’s often these risks that are 01:41:11.108 --> 01:41:23.165 underestimated by executives and SMEs—SMEs and large companies alike. So I’d say it’s really the human factor: employees who are poorly prepared and inadequately 01:41:25.060 --> 01:41:29.800 I’d like to take this opportunity to insert a brief aside that’s completely on topic. 01:41:29.800 --> 01:41:34.640 We'll also include a QR code so you can rate the presentations 01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:39.140 and the whole debate, so that we can respond without having to explain ourselves too much, 01:41:39.140 --> 01:41:42.460 but with empathy and by seeking solutions 01:41:42.460 --> 01:41:44.740 so we can do better next time. 01:41:44.740 --> 01:41:48.000 That'll be great—that way we can watch it beforehand. 01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:50.480 That's it, exactly. 01:41:54.180 --> 01:41:56.500 Yes, yes, yes, there you go. 01:41:56.500 --> 01:42:04.640 Everything was filmed, so it makes sense. 01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:11.800 Can we... 01:42:11.800 --> 01:42:14.120 There you go. 01:42:14.120 --> 01:42:16.000 Exactly. 01:42:16.000 --> 01:42:20.440 As for me, if you send me an email, I'll send you the presentation. 01:42:20.440 --> 01:42:22.460 My colleagues will say the same thing. 01:42:24.180 --> 01:42:31.320 So I was going to ask you a pretty technical question that I'd need to look into, but I 01:42:31.320 --> 01:42:40.800 I lost the questions about the south—maybe it was because the person who asked them was 01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:44.260 It was about ISO standards that were supposedly tailored to the situation. 01:42:44.260 --> 01:42:54.080 I have to admit that I have no... 01:42:54.080 --> 01:43:09.780 Do ISO standards address reputational risk by expanding existing standards, or not? 01:43:09.960 --> 01:43:11.960 ISO 9001 certification. It's very technical. 01:43:11.960 --> 01:43:13.640 Well, I have to admit I don't know. 01:43:13.640 --> 01:43:17.080 So don't hesitate, because lawyers... 01:43:17.080 --> 01:43:20.340 After all, people always think that a lawyer knows everything about the law, 01:43:20.340 --> 01:43:24.180 I should be able to tell you how to get a divorce. 01:43:24.180 --> 01:43:29.160 But don't hesitate to ask, the person who asked the question, 01:43:29.160 --> 01:43:31.180 she can send me... 01:43:31.180 --> 01:43:31.440 Oh, it's you. 01:43:31.440 --> 01:43:34.240 Okay. 01:43:34.240 --> 01:43:35.960 That reassures me. 01:43:35.960 --> 01:43:37.260 Wait, we'll pass you the microphone. 01:43:38.820 --> 01:43:43.740 Yes, I was telling her that it was really more of a governance issue. 01:43:43.740 --> 01:43:50.680 Yes, because typically, ISO standards—whether it's the 9000 series for quality, 01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:56.740 They take into account many of the aspects you mention. 01:43:56.740 --> 01:44:05.460 It's about the information within the company—who manages it, who can publish it, who can... 01:44:05.460 --> 01:44:08.800 Actually, I see a lot of elements in what you've presented. 01:44:08.820 --> 01:44:19.825 And it does exist, and I’ve been wondering—since ISO is a business too—have you heard about it? Have you, I mean, well, given that 01:44:19.825 --> 01:44:24.002 this kind of thing is already very well established. 01:44:24.900 --> 01:44:29.960 So, to be honest, we're working a lot on ISO 27001 and ISO 27002. 01:44:29.960 --> 01:44:35.040 So, when it comes to ISO 9001, I know a couple of names because it’s all about quality and such. 01:44:35.040 --> 01:44:36.540 So I'll be... 01:44:36.540 --> 01:44:38.060 Data, okay. 01:44:38.060 --> 01:44:42.960 So, to be completely honest, I couldn't say for sure whether it applies or not. 01:44:42.960 --> 01:44:52.000 But in any case, this involves standards, specifically ISO standards—I would say ISO 27001, for example, as well as 27001. 01:44:52.000 --> 01:44:53.300 That's right. 01:44:53.700 --> 01:45:02.200 So that’s the first part. There’s also ISO 27002, which really covers all the controls that need to be put in place. 01:45:02.200 --> 01:45:07.960 So they're connected; the two are connected. So in response to your question, that's what I would say. 01:45:07.960 --> 01:45:11.420 That's right, so 27001 and 27002. 01:45:11.420 --> 01:45:19.717 Another question—and perhaps the person who asked it will be able to phrase it a bit more clearly—is whether managing one’s 01:45:19.717 --> 01:45:23.419 online reputation could be helpful when looking for a job? 01:45:23.100 --> 01:45:29.580 I'm not sure if this is meant to be a way to introduce yourself or to market yourself as a job seeker. 01:45:29.580 --> 01:45:31.060 I don't know who asked that question. 01:45:31.060 --> 01:45:38.880 Yes? Could you rephrase that, please? 01:45:38.880 --> 01:45:44.500 Actually, I was wondering—maybe it’s a satellite issue; we don’t know anything, 01:45:44.500 --> 01:45:50.080 but let's just say reputation—anyone looking for a job, 01:45:51.680 --> 01:46:02.500 or the OCE, which is specifically looking to place people; there’s this whole concept of a lack of reputation, whether as an individual or as an organization. 01:46:02.500 --> 01:46:13.020 And is it possible that... I might be getting ahead of myself, but I’m asking the question, and there are certainly some very interesting opportunities there as well. 01:46:13.020 --> 01:46:20.280 Have you heard anything like that from people around you? I don't know. 01:46:20.520 --> 01:46:23.160 This is an open-ended, comprehensive question about a projection. 01:46:23.160 --> 01:46:32.740 I didn't quite understand the question, but if it's really on a personal level, 01:46:32.740 --> 01:46:38.640 If you're looking for a job or something else, is it important to manage your image and reputation? 01:46:38.640 --> 01:46:42.400 That is to say, on an individual basis, certainly, yes, of course. 01:46:42.400 --> 01:46:47.900 After that, we can get training on existing tools, if possible. 01:46:48.480 --> 01:46:58.000 As for me, I tend to think in more organizational and institutional terms—that is, within our social institutions today—in order to find... 01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:04.180 In practical terms, the unemployment office offers training programs. 01:47:04.180 --> 01:47:07.440 She offers training in various subjects. 01:47:07.440 --> 01:47:10.860 But reputations, managing all of that through... 01:47:10.860 --> 01:47:15.560 Because we're really visible, and that's how it works these days when it comes to finding work. 01:47:16.180 --> 01:47:25.760 That was kind of my question—it’s a broader issue than just an individual managing their own reputation. I’m not sure if that makes more sense. 01:47:25.760 --> 01:47:35.515 We need to start, to give them... I don't know if that's... But I know that in some schools these days, they're starting earlier and earlier 01:47:35.447 --> 01:47:39.432 with children, even in elementary school or middle school. 01:47:39.500 --> 01:47:50.533 We teach them about their right to privacy, how to present themselves online, what they can do, and what they can’t do. I’m not sure if this is already the case—I 01:47:50.533 --> 01:48:01.109 don’t know which schools do this, or if it’s implemented in all public schools—but these are clearly issues we’re seeing more and more among young people. 01:48:01.760 --> 01:48:10.295 And then, of course, parents do the same with their children. I think it’s something that’s part of their upbringing and is gradually starting to 01:48:10.295 --> 01:48:18.545 be addressed in the classroom. How should they handle it? And really, I’ve seen the term “online reputation” used in presentations given to 01:48:18.545 --> 01:48:22.755 12- and 13-year-olds to teach them how to deal with these kinds of issues. 01:48:26.200 --> 01:48:33.240 And I think, yes, it's important to learn about this and understand how it works. 01:48:33.240 --> 01:48:41.960 Like any tool, I think—as we’ve mentioned before, and as I’ve also discussed regarding AI—it’s important to be careful not to include sensitive data. 01:48:41.960 --> 01:48:45.320 A bad reputation is exactly the same thing. 01:48:45.320 --> 01:48:53.400 To get an idea of what kind of image you project—since I mentioned the photo from when you were 20—you posted a picture of yourself looking tipsy. 01:48:53.400 --> 01:48:55.160 It really stands out. 01:48:55.400 --> 01:49:02.800 When you're looking for a job, I think most employers will do a Google search 01:49:02.800 --> 01:49:08.120 to see if the person exists, if your Instagram accounts show up, etc. 01:49:08.120 --> 01:49:11.060 Actually, it can be harmful. 01:49:11.060 --> 01:49:14.300 That's why people are using more and more nicknames on all these social media platforms. 01:49:14.300 --> 01:49:18.380 But we always manage to find some clues. 01:49:18.380 --> 01:49:24.200 The priority is for your LinkedIn profile to appear first, because it's the professional network. 01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:26.200 But then, what really matters is everything else. 01:49:26.200 --> 01:49:29.240 Because some people like to take a peek behind the scenes. 01:49:29.240 --> 01:49:32.460 I hope that answers your question. 01:49:32.460 --> 01:49:37.940 All right, we're almost done. 01:49:37.940 --> 01:49:45.260 Is there one last question you'd like to ask? 01:49:45.260 --> 01:49:46.180 Yes, sir? 01:49:46.180 --> 01:49:51.380 Wait, speak a little closer to the mic so we can hear you in the replay. 01:49:51.380 --> 01:49:53.840 Didn't you hear? 01:49:53.840 --> 01:49:55.700 I heard you, but it's just for the record. 01:49:55.700 --> 01:49:59.280 I'm not sure if this is working properly—the mic too. Can you hear me? 01:49:59.280 --> 01:50:01.440 No, it was more just for the... 01:50:01.440 --> 01:50:03.240 Because I took a few photos too, just like some of you. 01:50:03.240 --> 01:50:08.980 And my question was, can we post about the event on LinkedIn? 01:50:08.980 --> 01:50:11.040 Since we participated today. 01:50:11.040 --> 01:50:13.480 The jokers. 01:50:13.480 --> 01:50:20.940 First of all, I’d say yes, you can—provided you don’t disclose any sensitive or confidential information, of course. 01:50:20.940 --> 01:50:22.000 Of course. 01:50:23.540 --> 01:50:26.900 And so, without tagging the person, without their permission. 01:50:26.900 --> 01:50:28.640 So if you want to tag us, just let us know. 01:50:28.640 --> 01:50:35.760 No, it's more general information. 01:50:35.760 --> 01:50:36.320 Yes, exactly. 01:50:36.320 --> 01:50:37.520 More generalists, exactly. 01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:38.220 Yes, exactly. 01:50:38.220 --> 01:50:39.520 Thank you. 01:50:39.520 --> 01:50:42.540 Thank you so much. 01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:45.220 Since this question has come up several times, 01:50:45.220 --> 01:50:49.760 You can watch the recording; the slides will be available. 01:50:49.760 --> 01:50:52.520 Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions. 01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:53.740 you're missing something 01:50:53.740 --> 01:50:55.240 I think we could still manage 01:50:55.240 --> 01:50:56.840 if you're missing 01:50:56.840 --> 01:50:59.400 if you want to have slides 01:50:59.400 --> 01:51:01.080 the full presentation 01:51:01.080 --> 01:51:04.180 thank you all 01:51:04.180 --> 01:51:06.540 for coming so early in the morning 01:51:06.540 --> 01:51:08.000 but motivated and alert 01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:10.220 Thank you so much 01:51:10.220 --> 01:51:11.200 to our three speakers 01:51:11.200 --> 01:51:13.720 for these extremely interesting discussions 01:51:13.720 --> 01:51:16.320 especially for these visions of the future 01:51:16.320 --> 01:51:18.280 since it takes 01:51:18.280 --> 01:51:19.180 more and more space 01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:22.500 A huge thank you to all our partners 01:51:22.500 --> 01:51:34.820 who are contributing to the breakfast event—namely the CCIG, FER Geneva, BDO, Deloitte, EY, KPMG, PwC, and Entreprise Remande—not to mention ourselves at Bilan. 01:51:34.820 --> 01:51:48.120 And I’d also like to extend my heartfelt thanks to the OCEI for organizing these breakfasts; the next one will be held at the FER in Geneva. 01:51:48.280 --> 01:51:49.760 Actually, this time it's at FER Geneva. 01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:51.380 This morning, I showed up at the FER. 01:51:51.380 --> 01:51:53.380 So I had to run all the way here. 01:51:53.380 --> 01:51:55.520 But this time, it will be on June 26. 01:51:55.520 --> 01:51:58.600 And the topic will be the board of directors. 01:51:58.600 --> 01:52:00.840 Well, have a great morning, everyone, and have a great weekend.